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The positive case for voting Hillary Clinton for president.
RE: The positive case for voting Hillary Clinton for president.
If she does lose, I really hope someone is there to tape her reaction. I want to see the face a person like her makes when they lose a popularity contest to a child rapist.
I am John Cena's hip-hop album.
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RE: The positive case for voting Hillary Clinton for president.
(November 7, 2016 at 5:43 pm)Irrational Wrote: Is there anyone in the current political scene who you would consider (or would have considered) remotely electable?

Running for Pres?  No.  Unfortunately, my choices are limited by forces beyond my control, as our all of our choices (not runnng for pres...i;s hard to even know, I've never heard of them, we don't know what we don't know).  That's kind of the problem, from where I sit.  The system we've accepted is simply not churning out electable candidates.  I can't see why it would ever do that, if we'll take a bite of whatever apple they set in front of us.  

The last time I saw an electable candidate was 8 years ago, and he;s been pres for 8 years...ad before that......24 years ago...24 years - a quarter of a century, the entirety of my eligibility to vote I've only seen two electable candidates to my mind and both were pres for two terms, both were dems..insomuch as that term applies nowadays.  I've never agreed with either of them on every issue, and both disappointed me more than once on issues in which we have alignment...but both at the time and in retrospect I can at least appreciate that they were fucking electable.  Neither is a lofty bar, I'm fond of calling Obama the drone warlord...Bill is Slick Willy...that's how low you can stoop and still be considered electable, by me.

(late addendum...had Biden run......you might be hearing me sing a different tune)
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RE: The positive case for voting Hillary Clinton for president.
(November 7, 2016 at 10:34 am)Rhythm Wrote: The real world consequences of -not- sticking to my principles is the downward spiral of presidential candidates that's given us the two turds we see before us.

Rule consequentalism: The view that the best consequences come through sticking to your principles.

Wikipedia Wrote:In general, consequentialist theories focus on actions. However, this need not be the case. Rule consequentialism is a theory that is sometimes seen as an attempt to reconcile deontology and consequentialism—and in some cases, this is stated as a criticism of rule consequentialism. Like deontology, rule consequentialism holds that moral behavior involves following certain rules. However, rule consequentialism chooses rules based on the consequences that the selection of those rules have.
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RE: The positive case for voting Hillary Clinton for president.
(November 6, 2016 at 3:03 pm)Aroura Wrote:
(November 6, 2016 at 7:24 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: To me it's like the difference between a deontologist and a consequentalist. Both have their hearts in thee right place. The former wants to stick to their principles whereas the latter is more concerned with positive consequences regardless of principles.

We're all good people here.

Well, except for those of us who are awful like Drich, but you get the point. The vast majority of us here have good intentions. And in life that's what matters most of all.
Well said.  I do get frustrated when people put their own principles ahead of real world consequences, particularly if those consequences would not affect them much.  It feels selfish.  I'm not saying it IS selfish, as I'm sure people can spin it around and point out how going against ones own principals to supposedly help others also has drawbacks.  But since I'm apparently more of a consequentialist, I have a hard time standing in the shows of people who put their feelings ahead of the tangible wellbeing of others.

That sounds harsh, and i don't mean for it to. As you say, we are all still good people.  I'm not sure how best to phrase it.

Thank you for your post and acknowledgement, Aroura. Ultimately I agree with you. I made a thread on how personally I combine Virtue Ethics, Rule Consequentailism and Act Consequentalism.... meaning ultimately I think it's best for us to just engage in actions that provide the right consquences, even if it violates our principles and virtues... but generally following principles is the best way to act rightly, and valuing certain virtues is the best way to form right principles to act rightly.

If your heart and/or head tells you that a certain action(s) brings about right consequences... then ultimately that's the right thing to do even if it goes against your principles and virtues, yes I agree Smile
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RE: The positive case for voting Hillary Clinton for president.
Bill Maher is a comedian too.... but there are no jokes in his interview with Fareed Zakaria.

https://youtu.be/gQjToWSm1GY
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RE: The positive case for voting Hillary Clinton for president.
Germs are real, Bill.

Vaccines are good, Bill.

Other than that... you're pretty awesome, Bill.
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RE: The positive case for voting Hillary Clinton for president.
I notice no one has pointed out that "she's not Trump" is not a positive argument. The reverse comment in the Trump thread, however ...

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RE: The positive case for voting Hillary Clinton for president.
(November 7, 2016 at 8:25 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I notice no one has pointed out that "she's not Trump" is not a positive argument. The reverse comment in the Trump thread, however ...
I didn't see the person who posted that, but going back, I see it now.

Agreed, that's not a positive argument. I think in this case the discussion was moving quickly at that point, or Hammy might have caught it as well.
“Eternity is a terrible thought. I mean, where's it going to end?” 
― Tom StoppardRosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
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RE: The positive case for voting Hillary Clinton for president.
(November 7, 2016 at 8:25 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I notice no one has pointed out that "she's not Trump" is not a positive argument. The reverse comment in the Trump thread, however ...

I am the one who made that other comment. I hadn't commented on the one in this thread because I hadn't seen it.

Buy yeah, that's not a positive argument.
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RE: The positive case for voting Hillary Clinton for president.
(November 7, 2016 at 8:25 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I notice no one has pointed out that "she's not Trump" is not a positive argument. The reverse comment in the Trump thread, however ...

I'm absolutely POSITIVE that she's not Drumpf.
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