(January 20, 2017 at 5:37 pm)Aroura Wrote: Look, if you just want to compare god to something that cannot be proven to exist, you can use Russel's Teapot as a great example.

Yes, that would be far less contemptuous. It should be noted that Russell was not so arrogant as to say there is no evidence. I believe he was careful enough to say there was insufficient evidence - a very big difference.

(January 20, 2017 at 5:37 pm)Aroura Wrote: A lot of great minds have wasted effort trying to rationalize this one extraordinary claim as an exception when it meets no criteria to BE an exception, but instead should be held to the same standard.

Among all the accusations and recriminations did you happen to notice my explanation of why that the comparison is a category error. No one seems to have addressed it other than say "no it's not."

Let's add another adjective to the list, I guess.  What aren't you going to opine on in this thread?  We've heard your opinions on who the douchebags are, who the perverts are, and who is or isn't arrogant and why....all, ofc, revolving around your belief in fairies.

(January 20, 2017 at 11:47 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: I KNOW YOU WANNA BELIEVE IT MAN BUT YOU NEVER SAW A TWIX 'HAVING' AN OLD MAN!!!

Thank you for making me google that...

No really, thank you - it was more stimulating than I thought.

(January 20, 2017 at 5:37 pm)Aroura Wrote: Look, I think the atheists are really deflecting here. I get you are insulting the beleif,not the person, but really people define themselves by their beliefs, memories, and actions.

That's their problem, not mine.  How they take things is always their problem.  Anyone who defines themselves by their religious beliefs has issues.

(January 20, 2017 at 5:37 pm)Aroura Wrote: Look, I think the atheists are really deflecting here. I get you are insulting the beleif,not the person, but really people define themselves by their beliefs, memories, and actions. IT's one of the core things that makes a person who they are.  So of course if you insult a belief (or lack-there-of) you are also insulting the person.  Stop hiding and just own it.  
Insulting ones belief does NOT mean you think they are a bad person, though, so on the other hand, those acting like it goes that far are too much as well.

I think it IS meant to be insulting. Not insulting on the level of like, hey you are a crazy person, but pointing out that it is childish and silly like the tooth fairy.

Look, if you just want to compare god to something that cannot be proven to exist, you can use Russel's Teapot as a great example.

If you want to make the comparison also include the idea that it is absurd, you can use the Flying Spaghetti Monster (Or the Pink Unicorn). That's why atheists invented these figures, after all.

If you want to include the idea that it is absurd AND childish AND silly, then you use the Tooth Fairy and Santa Clause.

It is the entire POINT of the comparisons, to show that that we do not believe in these other things as adults, god belief is only different in that society accepts it, and really in no other way. A lot of great minds have wasted effort trying to rationalize this one extraordinary claim as an exception when it meets no criteria to BE an exception, but instead should be held to the same standard.

I'm not saying it's ok to insult theists, Or that its too rude to use these arguments (again, I had a similar one used against me when I was a theist and I also found it insulting, but it helped me realize it was indeed an absurd belief), but just that it seems this is the entire point of the argument is to get the theist to see how ALL of these beliefs are absurd.

Is that wrong?  If you went down the street unsolicited doing it, absolutely.  That's an asshole thing to do. But theists are here on an atheist forum, asking us to discuss these subjects.  We didn't come to a Christian forum, they came to us. Which is great!  But, this is the exact proper place for using such arguments if such a place exists at all.  Otherwise, we can just rename this, "Hanging Out" forum, and not discuss belief or lack-there-of at all.

Bullshit bullshit bullshit. I have never in my life been so offended by someone "insulting" me that I needed to go onto an online forum and make a rant thread about it. Life is not fair - period. Not everyone thinks like one another. You can insult my beliefs as a Satanist all you want... so what? How does that change or affect anything? If you don't feel like you're being taken seriously in a conversation, leave that conversation. You know what offends me? Grown adults acting like little wimps.

The whole way this thread was set up is like a big cry baby whinefest and quite honestly it's a little pathetic. I'm not saying atheists don't do it, I'm not even saying theists do it more or less, but this is honestly just silly. Believing in a omnipotent deity that created the universe and watches every move you make is in fact akin to believing in a magical fairy that leaves prizes under your pillow for when you lose a tooth. There is no evidence for either and believing either one requires a vast amount of faith. This is a stupid thread and I'm honestly embarrassed for some of you.

Atheists cannot hide from the fact that belief in a supernatural sky being is quite absurd. We can be polite for the sake of saving the feelings of the theists but we cannot hide from how we feel. If that is too much for some of you to handle, I suggest you get the fuck off this forum, seriously.

Your beliefs will be challenged here, and very few of us are going to treat any theists with kiddy gloves. The problem is, you all have the same, recited, tired old arguments that we have dealt with time and time again. None of the theists every bring anything new to the table and it's honestly a bit silly at this point.

Arguing with these people on the subject of religion is like talking to a wall. At the end of the day every theist I know will back into the corner of, "Well that's just my belief, regardless of whether or not you agree with it"

And you know what? That's fine. Because like I said everyone thinks differently. But do not expect me to respect your silly beliefs.

Meh, like I said, I see tooth fairy comparisons here all the time and have never said a word. I came into this thread to confirm for the first time ever that yes, I do find it offensive, and to explain why I do. That's all. I'm not trying to silence anyone, neither do i expect anyone to actually care. Chad and I have just as much right to say we find a particular comment offensive as anyone else does to make the offensive remark in the first place, imho. There are numerous threads here about ppl taking offense to others saying they prayed for them. But somehow me and Chad are the only "sensitive/insecure" ones.

Well sure. You can take offense from anything you want. I won't argue with that. What you do with what others say is entirely up to you. Just as long as you aren't claiming others are trying to be offensive and then calling them douchebags in return, I have no problems with you. You're at least still cool to me, CL.

(January 20, 2017 at 7:59 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Meh, like I said, I see tooth fairy comparisons here all the time and have never said a word. I came into this thread to confirm for the first time ever that yes, I do find it offensive, and to explain why I do. That's all. I'm not trying to silence anyone, neither do i expect anyone to actually care. Chad and I have just as much right to say we find a particular comment offensive as anyone else does to make the offensive remark in the first place, imho. There are numerous threads here about ppl taking offense to others saying they prayed for them. But somehow me and Chad are the only "sensitive/insecure" ones.

Not you CL you're the best

The comparison is suppose to be analogous to the feeling a nullifidian experiences when thinking about the possibility of a tooth fairy.  

I'm sure theists can think of the tooth fairy story and can reject it for many reasons but imagine the feeling you have towards the tooth fairy when no one else brings up the topic of the tooth fairy and it doesn't cross your mind and you are taking a walk or on vacation or at work .  That is exactly how I feel about any god, which is nothing, no feelings or thoughts.  

And if I stumbled upon a person IRL that was going on and on about the tooth fairy and yet the rest of their life seemed normal and productive I don't think there would be a legal thing to be done to them.  No matter how odd you thought they were acting they could still raise their children, work a job, volunteer, invent something or be a criminal.

The tooth fairy is just an easy to grasp at fake thing that we can all agree on.  It would be poor to use an example where there is a population that might actually find validity in the chosen example of woo.

Wow, you guys be angry, lol.

Look, I agree with the tooth fairy comparison. Im actually with Hammy and think it's possibly more absurd than fairies I also just agree that it's insulting to say aloud to a believer. You are responsible for what you say, if it affects others, particularly if they let you know how it made them feel, giving you the chance to edit it. If you, ehem, chose not to, that's fine, you are all adults and I'm not the boss of any of you.

You guys really think people freely chose belief and how one defines onesself though? Can anyone here chose to start believing in God right now? Can you alter any one belief at all for me today by choice alone?

Personally, if I'm trying to get a person to agree with me, that is to alter their belief, I think insulting them works against that purpose, weather I mean to or not, because it will cause them to shut out my reasoning with an emotional response. If your goal is just to point and laugh....have at it I guess.

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Also, remember that most of the atheists here on this forum used to be theists at some point. I don't think the conversations are pointless or that all theists are brick walls. I've seen at least 2 Christians deconverted after conversations with non believers, though it took time to digest in both cases, both admitted why. I myself deconverted as an adult, for many reasons really, and it was a long process, but what put me over the hump were good arguments from a non believer.

Meh, again you are all adults. I just find a pot of honey draws more flies than a pot of vinegar. Maybe we should just give them POT? Lol