Quote:It's a part of nature. Tell straight people to stop having all these gay babies. It's been part of every society on earth, whether accepted, unaccepted, open or otherwise. Nothing is going to change that, so you might as well get over it.

I did not say it was not natural. Besides, I'm already over it. My opinions on the matter are as fixed as yours.
I do not consider homosexuals to be fit to be a part of normal society(although I know that you people do detest words such as "normal" and concepts such as social norms), and think that they should keep to themselves, and stay out of public eyes.

Quote:because of who they love.

What if they love, say, their own daughters? It's obviously a very extreme example, but you cannot tolerate everyone, nor everything.

Quote:you know how much it can hurt to hear people condemning them for that little aspect of a person's entire being.

And you are sure that it's only a little aspect of that person's entire being?
If so, why do we really discuss this? It's obviously an aspect which puts the person at odds with society.
It's not small.

Quote:It's beyond embarrassing that the human species still has problems accepting people for who they are.

That's too general of a statement. I only accept homosexuals because it's..As you said, not really dependant on the person. They can't help it but to be that way.

(January 8, 2012 at 2:25 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: I did not say it was not natural.

Heterosexuality is equally natural. So now any argument you make can be used against heterosexuals.

Quote:Besides, I'm already over it.

Obviously not.

Quote:My opinions on the matter are as fixed as yours.

If someone can present evidence, unbiased by religious doctrine, that homosexuality is a harmful, immoral choice that threatens the well being of animal life on the planet earth, I would have no choice but to reexamine my opinion. It would have to be more overwhelming than the evidence that it's not.

Quote:I do not consider homosexuals to be fit to be a part of normal society(although I know that you people do detest words such as "normal" and concepts such as social norms), and think that they should keep to themselves, and stay out of public eyes.

Since you admitted that it's natural, I have to counter this position by saying that heterosexuals are not fit to be a part of normal society. Since sexual preference is not a choice, by your own admission, it must not be normal, and therefore heterosexuals should keep to themselves and stay out of the public eye.

Quote:What if they love, say, their own daughters?

If by "love" you mean "sexually abuse", or "rape", then you're not talking about love at all. You're talking about a mental illness, that doesn't have anything to do with healthy heterosexuals or homosexuals.

Quote:The distinction between a victim's gender and a perpetrator's sexual orientation is important because many child molesters don't really have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men or women. Instead, their sexual attractions focus on children – boys, girls, or children of both sexes.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/ht...ation.html

Quote:It's obviously a very extreme example, but you cannot tolerate everyone, nor everything.

It's an irrelevant example. Sexual abuse should not be tolerated because it's harmful and sick.

Quote:And you are sure that it's only a little aspect of that person's entire being?

Is your heterosexuality just a little aspect of your entire being? Or does your own sexual orientation define who you are completely?

Get the fuck out of town, dude! Fuck yes, I'm sure.

Quote:If so, why do we really discuss this? It's obviously an aspect which puts the person at odds with society.

We discuss it to educate people who don't understand. We discuss it because it's an issue, even though it shouldn't be. Why does it put people at odds with society? Who are the ones with the real problem? The people who were born gay, or the people who have hang-ups about it?

Quote:It's not small.

Said Pastor Haggard to Mike Jones.

Quote:I only accept homosexuals because it's..As you said, not really dependant on the person. They can't help it but to be that way.

Right, and you can't help but be heterosexual, so that's why people accept you too.

Quote:Heterosexuality is equally natural. So now any argument you make can be used against heterosexuals.

Mind you, heterosexuality does not go against the way things were supposed to work out. They might both be natural, but they certainly aren't both normal.

Quote:If someone can present evidence, unbiased by religious doctrine, that homosexuality is a harmful, immoral choice that threatens the well being of animal life on the planet earth, I would have no choice but to reexamine my opinion. It would have to be more overwhelming than the evidence that it's not.

I've claimed none of these, nor do I base any of my opinions on homosexuality on the basis of these.

Quote:Since you admitted that it's natural, I have to counter this position by saying that heterosexuals are not fit to be a part of normal society. Since sexual preference is not a choice, by your own admission, it must not be normal, and therefore heterosexuals should keep to themselves and stay out of the public eye.

Heterosexuality is considered to be normal by normal society.
Homosexuality is not, rightfully so, as it's not normal. I consider it to be a defect, a deviation. If all people were hermaphrodites, we'd have no such distinction.

Quote:If by "love" you mean "sexually abuse", or "rape", then you're not talking about love at all. You're talking about a mental illness, that doesn't have anything to do with healthy heterosexuals or homosexuals.

Nope. I'm talking of a case in which both the father and daughter are in an intimate relationship with eachother.
They're not having children either. Is this acceptable to you?
Are you really without limits?
Besides, it's not about homosexuality either. It's about this so called "love" of yours, the magical word that solves everything.

Quote:It's an irrelevant example. Sexual abuse should not be tolerated because it's harmful and sick.

It certainly is not. But you obviously thought of abuse at first.
I'm talking of a consensual relationship, as you people also put an emphasis on consent.

Quote:Is your heterosexuality just a little aspect of your entire being? Or does your own sexual orientation define who you are completely?

Get the fuck out of town, dude! Fuck yes, I'm sure.

My heterosexuality does not matter, since I'm not the one that holds rallies and asking for special considerations and rights, and holds up signs reading "hetero pride worldwide".
Obviously their homosexuality is a huge part of their identity.

Quote:We discuss it to educate people who don't understand. We discuss it because it's an issue, even though it shouldn't be. Why does it put people at odds with society? Who are the ones with the real problem? The people who were born gay, or the people who have hang-ups about it?

Well, mainly because it goes against the norms of society.
That's about it. It's something that they should accept. However, they expect us to accept their views on how society should function.
I mind you, homosexuality and homosexuals are only as free and "accepted" or "tolerated" as normal society, in which the homosexuals themselves were born into, allows them to be.

Quote:Right, and you can't help but be heterosexual, so that's why people accept you too.

But not homosexuals, due to the reasons mentioned above. The homosexuals have pushed the limits as far as they did in some countries.
In some, they couldn't. In my country, they behave in the ways I'd like them to behave. They simply do not violate social norms.

Does it say in the bible why homosexuality is wrong? I only seem to remember leviticus saying it was an abomination but dont remember seeing any justification for that status.

So is it enough for theists that the bible says its bad without any justificaton?

I am not gay and have zip feelings in that direction and I think that is why I dont care what people who are get up to.

I think its the people who are drawn 'that way' themselves who tend to be the most vocal in their opposition.

I am thinking of some famous american preachers when I mention this.

Homosexuality is a part of human nature - same goes to animals. Homosexuality is not based on choice, but biochemical reaction. The biochemical reaction like love, for example. So who says homosexuality is not natural? Self-righteous bigots like theists?

(January 8, 2012 at 4:05 pm)Blam! Wrote: Homosexuality is a part of human nature - same goes to animals. Homosexuality is not based on choice, but biochemical reaction. The biochemical reaction like love, for example. So who says homosexuality is not natural? Self-righteous bigots like theists?

Homophobia is pointless.

So are many birth defects.
Part of human nature. Obviously not in accordance with what's normal.
They occur naturally, but do we classify them as normal?

(January 8, 2012 at 4:11 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: So are many birth defects.
Part of human nature. Obviously not in accordance with what's normal.
They occur naturally, but do we classify them as normal?

If two guys(or gals) want to fuck why do you care?

Whats the harm?

(January 8, 2012 at 3:26 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Mind you, heterosexuality does not go against the way things were supposed to work out.

According to who or what? How were things supposed to work out? A world full of breeders with no control group? Gimme a break! How do you know how things were supposed to work out, and if things were supposed to work out differently, why didn't they?

Quote:They might both be natural, but they certainly aren't both normal.

Normal according to whose standards? Yours? Who gives a fuck what you think? How would you like it if the world were dominated by homosexuals who said that you aren't normal?

Quote:Heterosexuality is considered to be normal by normal society.
Homosexuality is not, rightfully so, as it's not normal. I consider it to be a defect, a deviation. If all people were hermaphrodites, we'd have no such distinction.

I consider people who think normalcy is going along with the ignorant crowd a deviation and a societal defect. It's not true that all societies throughout history/modern societies have given homosexuality an abnormal distinction. Many societies have embraced it, and considered it perfectly normal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#History

Quote:Nope. I'm talking of a case in which both the father and daughter are in an intimate relationship with eachother.

What in the fuck does that have to do with homosexuality?

Quote:They're not having children either. Is this acceptable to you?

If they're both adults, and not procreating together, who am I to stop them or judge them? As long as no one is being harmed, and that's what makes them happy, I would accept them. If it's between an adult and a child, then it's a different story- still irrelevant to homosexuality.

Quote:Are you really without limits?

Never said anything that suggested I was. Stop being such a drama queen.

Quote:Besides, it's not about homosexuality either. It's about this so called "love" of yours, the magical word that solves everything.

What about love? People do it, and there is no good reason for anyone to judge/condemn people for who they choose to love, as long as no one is being harmed in the process. I never once said it was a magical word that solves everything.

Quote:It certainly is not. But you obviously thought of abuse at first.
I'm talking of a consensual relationship, as you people also put an emphasis on consent.

Why didn't you specify? You made it sound like you were insinuating that homosexuals were more likely to be sexual abusers.

Quote:My heterosexuality does not matter, since I'm not the one that holds rallies and asking for special considerations and rights, and holds up signs reading "hetero pride worldwide".

Because heterosexuals aren't the ones who are being oppressed, and discriminated against. If they were, you'd be doing the same thing. It's not special considerations that they're asking for, it's equality and understanding and tolerance.

Quote:Obviously their homosexuality is a huge part of their identity.

Only because people like you make a big deal out of it. If you can't see that, you're blind. They're the victims of unjust discrimination and hatred just because they happen to be attracted to members of the opposite sex. They don't wake up in the morning and drink gay coffee, read the gay paper, and have gay sex until bedtime. They're just regular people with a sexual preference that's different from yours, and that's the only thing people are discriminating against, so naturally, it's the only thing they really have to bitch about.

Quote:Well, mainly because it goes against the norms of society.
That's about it. It's something that they should accept. However, they expect us to accept their views on how society should function.

They expect to be accepted as normal, because they are normal, and they should be able to marry and have families with whoever makes them happy without fear of condemnation- just like heterosexuals.

Quote:I mind you, homosexuality and homosexuals are only as free and "accepted" or "tolerated" as normal society, in which the homosexuals themselves were born into, allows them to be.

And I say it's time for those ignorant societies to become educated, and progress into tolerant, peaceful societies. There is no good reason to stay locked in a box of misunderstanding in this age when we know better, and we know that homosexuality is natural and harmless to society.

Quote:But not homosexuals, due to the reasons mentioned above. The homosexuals have pushed the limits as far as they did in some countries.
In some, they couldn't. In my country, they behave in the ways I'd like them to behave. They simply do not violate social norms.

Yeah, because how dare people expect to be treated with dignity and respect. That's just pushing things too far.

Turkey is a shitty place. Always has been. If it's normal to be shitty, ignorant, and bigoted, then I am happy to be abnormal.

Quote:My heterosexuality does not matter, since I'm not the one that holds rallies and asking for special considerations and rights..

They're not asking for special rights, just equal ones.

(January 8, 2012 at 4:15 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

Quote:My heterosexuality does not matter, since I'm not the one that holds rallies and asking for special considerations and rights..

They're not asking for special rights, just equal ones.

This is the kind of post I like best, short and to the point.