Atheism & Bisexuality

[g-mark]

Defective in what way?

For instance, if a person is born a male, but the chemical reactions within their brain tells them they are a women, then something must be going wrong.

I spoke to a completely gay man at work the other day, this man told me he tried to commit suicide because he didn't like being gay. He said he didn't like thinking he was gay. In his own words he said 'my mother should have put me down at birth'. I found this strange, but have noticed alot of people who are gay tend to suffer from depression.

Well for me my bisexuality became very apparent, there wasn't much thinking involved. Not with my head anyway.

Perhaps you should have a think about it. Ask yourself seriously if you are gay.

The truth it is very hard to determine for some people where their sexual preferences lie because it is not that black and white for everyone. For me it was quite easy. I prefer women over men, but have had sexual relationships with men in the past that I enjoyed and might have them again if the situation occurs.

This is something I cannot understand. What causes you to think like this?

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[Kyuuketsuki]

For instance, if a person is born a male, but the chemical reactions within their brain tells them they are a women, then something must be going wrong.

No ... it's something to be explained sure but it doesn't have to mean it's in some way "wrong" or "faulty"

I spoke to a completely gay man at work the other day, this man told me he tried to commit suicide because he didn't like being gay. He said he didn't like thinking he was gay. In his own words he said 'my mother should have put me down at birth'. I found this strange, but have noticed alot of people who are gay tend to suffer from depression.

Which could as easily be social conditioning or people telling him he was broken.

This is something I cannot understand. What causes you to think like this?

To my mind you come across as narrow-minded and/or mind-made-up on this subject so what causes you to think like you do?

Kyu

[g-mark]

Why am I not attracted to men? I think as I do because men are hairy, masculine, and have the wrong bits. My personal morals tells me it is wrong for me, therefore it is not natural for me.

Yes I have made my mind up, which I am entitled to do.

It is not my place to say whether it is wrong or right for other people though.

Other people can do as they wish. Morals are a personal attribute. But it is not small-minded to ask questions and have an opinion.

There are good gay people and there are bad gay people.

This is different to wrong and right.

This is also different to what I was asking.

Judge yourself before you judge me.

[Eilonnwy]

You know what you should read, g-mark? The Iowa court decision legalizing gay marriage because I think it would address some of the questions you have asked.

Gay people are functioning and positive members of society. Whether being gay is genetic, psychological, whatever it is an intrinsic aspect of their personality that to change would fundamentally change who they are.

Take for example the overpopulation of the world. There are too many children without parents. Why not let two successful adults who cannot have children raise them? Does it matter that they happen to be the same sex? No! Studies have shown that same sex parents are just as good as opposite sex. In fact, there is a trend that shows they can be much better because same sex parents always have to plan for parenthood and therefore won't have unplanned, accidental babies that they can't support.

Saying there are good gay people or bad gay people is a useless statement. It should rather be there that there are good and bad people. Whether they are gay or not is irrelevant.

If you feel that it is wrong to be gay then that's your feelings and I respect that feeling, I have no business telling you who you are attracted to, that's something that it is only true for you. And as long as you recognize that you have no authority to tell other people they are wrong we're fine. I am a female and for me it's just as natural for me to be attracted to women in the same way I am attracted to men.

I truly think sexuality is fluid, that it is possible to mainly be attracted to one sex but still have some small attraction to the other sex. I'm a big supporter of the Kinsey scale approach to sexuality because I would most definitely disagree and argue that sexuality is not solidly straight or gay.

I took this test: http://kleingridonline.com/ which I think is a good representation of how your sexuality is measured. I'm came out with 48% Straight and 52% Gay. I find that to be very accurate representation of how I feel my bisexuality. I've always felt fairly even with but with a tiny inclination more towards women.

[LukeMC]

I took this test: http://kleingridonline.com/ which I think is a good representation of how your sexuality is measured. I'm came out with 48% Straight and 52% Gay. I find that to be very accurate representation of how I feel my bisexuality. I've always felt fairly even with but with a tiny inclination more towards women.

I just took the test and found out I'm approximately 25% gay! News to my ears
I think I'm going to have to agree with most of the posters already. The confidence to break from one (potentially life-altering) social norm would likely reinforce your ability to break from others and reveal your true self. Ie an atheist may feel more comfortable coming out of the gay closet, and likewise a gay would already have experienced being closeted so coming out of the atheist closet would be less of a big deal. That's only a hypothesis though, I couldn't confirm it.

[Rizzo]

Finally, I started my own transition, but I still can't help but think, I would be alot happier and more successful now if I had transitioned sooner and that probably would have happened if society hadn't made me feel like a freak.

I swear, if I wasn't an skeptic I'd start believing in Karma. I used to run a bulleting board for transsexuals in the Netherlands. Your story is one I've read probably dozens of times. It is saddening to know that so many transsexuals are not coming forward out of fear and shame. I also know that because of the hormonal and emotional rollercoaster ride transsexuals get into as they go into transition the suicide rate is very high. I've lost some friends from the transsexual community to suicide. All the more reason to make sure transsexuals get the best care possible in their journey.

Yep. First words I said to my therapist at the very beginning of my transition were "I feel like I'm a freak."

I spent most of my life as an outcast. I thought maybe I was gay but I didn't even really fit in with gay guys.

I remember, before, my life was kinda just a haze of red hot anger. No reason for it, I was just generally angry. Since I've started estrogen, I've only really gotten angry once. I had a long history of psych meds to help me, but none of them had half the impact that estrodial did. I can't explain it any better than to say, emotionally, I've always been chaotic before and now, finally, I'm at peace with myself.

And, yeah, it's not just me. I read that half of all transsexuals die by age 30. Usually because of suicide. I went to a support group and, out of about a dozen or so trans-people in the room, there were four of us who admitted attempting suicide with our pasts (ironically, all the m2f people used pills while the f2m used a gun). Feeling like I fit in really helped; getting the correct hormones in my system helped even better.

As for me, it wasn't the religious community that held me back asmuch, though. My dad did what all dads try to do: turn their "son" into another version of himself. Who is my dad? Big jock. I was raised on a baseball field where one of the worst insults you can get is to do something "like a girl." You can only imagine how I felt because.... I GOT THAT ALL THE TIME! I really had to watch myself and avoid doing things as they came naturally to me because I did them the girly way and got made fun of for it. As puberty hit and depression got worse, my dad was more and more convinced that being active and into sports would help, but it didn't. If anything, trying to fit in with the locker room talk made things worse.

[Kyuuketsuki]

Yes I have made my mind up, which I am entitled to do.

Fair enough but have you tried one? Just curious

Kyu

[Rizzo]

Finally, I started my own transition, but I still can't help but think, I would be alot happier and more successful now if I had transitioned sooner and that probably would have happened if society hadn't made me feel like a freak.

I swear, if I wasn't an skeptic I'd start believing in Karma. I used to run a bulleting board for transsexuals in the Netherlands. Your story is one I've read probably dozens of times. It is saddening to know that so many transsexuals are not coming forward out of fear and shame. I also know that because of the hormonal and emotional rollercoaster ride transsexuals get into as they go into transition the suicide rate is very high. I've lost some friends from the transsexual community to suicide. All the more reason to make sure transsexuals get the best care possible in their journey.

Oh, and BTW, it's not just a coincidence that you met a transsexual on an atheist forum. I know several transsexuals who are also atheists. There are two of them that pop immediately to mind who do alot of trans-related vlogs on youtube (look up "Winter Winwin" and "Karmatic1110" if you want to know who I mean).

Makes sense if you think about it. If I know in my head and my heart that I'm a girl but my body doesn't agree, who can I blame? Who made me and screwed up in doing it? If I were to believe in God, I would be pretty pissed with him. I saw a 20/20 about a ten year old girl who said those exact sentiments. "I'm mad at God because he made me a boy and I'm not a boy! I'm a girl!"

Worse yet, some trans people are deeply religious and because of that, they deny who they are. They figure "If God wanted me to be a girl/boy, God would have made me that way. For me to try to change myself is going against God." Then tend to deal with their issues in less than healthy ways.

[leo-rcc]

Well for me my bisexuality became very apparent, there wasn't much thinking involved. Not with my head anyway.

Perhaps you should have a think about it. Ask yourself seriously if you are gay.

Why? I already know the answer to that.

The truth it is very hard to determine for some people where their sexual preferences lie because it is not that black and white for everyone. For me it was quite easy. I prefer women over men, but have had sexual relationships with men in the past that I enjoyed and might have them again if the situation occurs.

This is something I cannot understand. What causes you to think like this?

---

[/quote]

What makes you think this needs a cause?

[g-mark]

Having a scientific background, behaviour generally is associated with a cause.

If you say it just is, then that is a 'belief' or 'faith'.

Something must cause you to think this way?

Have you never thought about the thought process?

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Yes I have made my mind up, which I am entitled to do.

Fair enough but have you tried one? Just curious

Kyu

Actually, one of my former friends decided to give me a hand job when I was asleep, on a camping trip. I woke up with his hand on my cock, going for it. Even though it did feel good at the time, the though of it afterwards made me angry and untrusting of gay men. For brfore this, I had never though about the subject. So, if you consider oral 'having tried it' then yes. If you consider sex as 'having tried it', then no.

It is not something I think I would enjoy. Anal sex with women is not something I enjoy, therefore I can not see why it would be with a man.

Today I am not worried about gay men, and generally laugh at their advances, unless they become extremely pushy or angry.

Take for example the overpopulation of the world. There are too many children without parents. Why not let two successful adults who cannot have children raise them? Does it matter that they happen to be the same sex? No! Studies have shown that same sex parents are just as good as opposite sex. In fact, there is a trend that shows they can be much better because same sex parents always have to plan for parenthood and therefore won't have unplanned, accidental babies that they can't support.

Do you think the children will have any psychlogical side affects by having two parents of the same sex?