Religious moderates enable religious extremists

[professor]

Do I assume the Marxists Atheists are exempt from this discussion?
Having killed millions in the last century , I would include them. How about it?
Have the atheists contributed to that?
Which came first? Marxisim or atheisim?

[Ryantology]

Saying Jesus catered for psychopaths is like saying Gandhi or someone catered for psychopaths. It caters for pacifists not psychopaths.

Then why are your fundamentalists psychopaths and not pacifists?

Do I assume the Marxists Atheists are exempt from this discussion?
Having killed millions in the last century , I would include them. How about it?
Have the atheists contributed to that?
Which came first? Marxisim or atheisim?

I suppose we must be talking about Stalin's purges, which was carried out by Orthodox Christians in the Communist Party.

But, hey, look, atheists aren't perfect. That totally excuses all the Judeo-Christian genocides over the centuries.

[Sword of Christ]

Then why are your fundamentalists psychopaths and not pacifists?

If you're psychotic then religion can offer you a good outlet for it I guess. There are secular ways of doing it like supporting a political ideology or extremist movement of some kind. There were atheistic psychotic tyrants of course. I can bust out Pol Pot on you, a bit of Stalin, Chairman Mao. *Bill O'Reilly voice* They all had one thing in common, they didn't believe in God.





Though of course that doesn't prove atheism creates psychopaths anymore than you can prove that religion does. People start out with that tendency then find an outlet for it within an ideology. They won't find it in the teachings of Jesus anyway. Or the teachings of Buddha or whoever.

Do I assume the Marxists Atheists are exempt from this discussion?
Having killed millions in the last century , I would include them. How about it?
Have the atheists contributed to that?
Which came first? Marxisim or atheisim?

The thing about claiming that there isn't a God or a heaven and what have you is a that some people may attempt to create a heaven or utopia here on Earth. In the case of Communism it became more of a hell on Earth.

I suppose we must be talking about Stalin's purges, which was carried out by Orthodox Christians in the Communist Party.

There were Christian Nazi's as well, your point?



Safe to say say that religious belief didn't exactly thrive under Soviet Communism, it was in effect a state religion in itself.

But, hey, look, atheists aren't perfect. That totally excuses all the Judeo-Christian genocides over the centuries.

Secular regimes you can associate with atheism killed far more people in history if you really want to go there?

[professor]

Wow, can I get an answer to my question? Ryan, that was close but no cigar.
Could there possibly be some bias here?

Could I give the sequence?

Atheism (being very old) is the foundation of Marxism, therefore the moderate form of atheism (perhaps as found here) enables the Marxist extremists.
Theism (being very old) is the foundation of .. you name it...therefore the moderate form of theism is the foundation of...you name it... extremists.

[DLJ]

...
To reject all gods you must accept the one true God
...

We do. We accept him.

We have been ...

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Do I assume the Marxists Atheists are exempt from this discussion?
Having killed millions in the last century , I would include them. How about it?
Have the atheists contributed to that?
Which came first? Marxisim or atheisim?

In my defense, as a Marxist and an atheist. I have not killed that many people.

Atheism came first.

It went like this:
Apeman had no gods (atheism)
Apeman created gods (theism)
god created Marx.

Easy.

[Ryantology]

If you're psychotic then religion can offer you a good outlet for it I guess. There are secular ways of doing it like supporting a political ideology or extremist movement of some kind. There were atheistic psychotic tyrants of course. I can bust out Pol Pot on you, a bit of Stalin, Chairman Mao. *Bill O'Reilly voice* They all had one thing in common, they didn't believe in God.

I'd name the Christian examples, but there are far too many.

Though of course that doesn't prove atheism creates psychopaths anymore than you can prove that religion does. People start out with that tendency then find an outlet for it within an ideology. They won't find it in the teachings of Jesus anyway. Or the teachings of Buddha or whoever.

Great sections of the Old Testament are an instruction manual teaching who to kill and why. If you want to disown that, disown the OT. If you wish to keep it as part of your dogma, own it. But, don't try to pretend that 2000 years of Christian violence occurred in spite of it.

The thing about claiming that there isn't a God or a heaven and what have you is a that some people may attempt to create a heaven or utopia here on Earth. In the case of Communism it became more of a hell on Earth.

That's what happens sometimes when imperfect people try to do big things.

There were Christian Nazi's as well, your point?

My point is that your examples of 'atheist tyrants' such as Hitler and Stalin would have been nobodies pissing in the wind if they didn't have millions of Christians ready and willing to do the killing they wanted done.

[img]Safe to say say that religious belief didn't exactly thrive under Soviet Communism, it was in effect a state religion in itself.[/quote]

I wouldn't say it thrived, but I also wouldn't say that most Russians gave up their old beliefs, even if they pretended to at gunpoint.

Secular regimes you can associate with atheism killed far more people in history if you really want to go there?

Not a single one of these regimes killed for the purpose of promoting atheism, so go there if you want, it's irrelevant.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

And no rejecting all gods doesn't give me a lot of gods, that's stupid.

Money, career, relationships, stuff in general. Bit of Timothy Keller here.



But with God you see you no longer have these as gods and so if these go wrong for you you can just like throughly chilled, relaxin all cool.



You see what I'm saying here? It doesn't mean that won't be slightly annoyed if you balls up but it's not the end of the world you've got the rest of eternity here.

Oh I see, now everything qualifies as god now, figures, since you guys never manage to define god anyway. Well, unless you're able to cash your entire bank account and give it to a stranger on a street, you're just as worldly as I am, and let's make clear that you have no idea how I live my life or how materialistic I am.

And you're still encouraging the muslim fundamentalists, along with the atheists i guess, great for you.

I think it's more a political ideology that's pumping them up. They would like Islamic states and Sharia for all, people like yourself shot and Christians or whoever converted to the true God of Allah with Mohammed as his prophet. Or you you would have to pay the Jizya at any rate. Not that all Muslims would support that.

That's not what you said earlier. You said atheists are responsible for the fundamentalists. And then you clarified and said you mean the unbelievers as mentioned in the qur'an. So according to you, christians and atheists are equally responsible for fundamentalist muslims while muslims and atheists are responsible for fundamentalist christians. But now you're saying it's political ideology? Make your fucking mind up, if you want to come up with a dumb theory, at least have the honesty to stick with it.

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Secular regimes? Need I remind you that most of the first world countries are currently under secular regimes? Would you like to move to somewhere with a theocracy? Be my guest.

[Sword of Christ]

That's not what you said earlier. You said atheists are responsible for the fundamentalists.

I thought you meant people like the Westboro Baptists not Islamic Jihadists and Anders Brevik. If you want to claim that their religion turned them into psychopaths I don't really agree I think they would have been like that anyway. Westboro Baptists don't and wouldn't kill anyone they're just assholes, or can behave like assholes anyway.

And then you clarified and said you mean the unbelievers as mentioned in the qur'an. So according to you, christians and atheists are equally responsible for fundamentalist muslims while muslims and atheists are responsible for fundamentalist christians. But now you're saying it's political ideology? Make your fucking mind up, if you want to come up with a dumb theory, at least have the honesty to stick with it.

Yes psychopaths like to have an ideology to vent into be it religious or political or both like Anders Brevik. You can't really say Christianity made Anders Brevik the way he is and would have been perfectly normal otherwise, no because he would still be a psychopath.

Secular regimes? Need I remind you that most of the first world countries are currently under secular regimes? Would you like to move to somewhere with a theocracy? Be my guest.

Regimes that had nothing to do with religion or in some cases had affiliations to atheism and anti-theism.

[DLJ]

...
Westboro Baptists don't and wouldn't kill anyone they're just assholes, or can behave like assholes anyway.
...

I like the WBC.

There is honesty in being true to the scriptures they believe are from their god.

I've always had a low opinion of hypocrites.

"What hypocrites Christians are! What a farce it is for men and women to call Jesus lord and master! They do not obey his slightest command, and they ignore his teachings as undeserving their regard. There is not a precept, that the Christian church teaches came from the lips of Jesus, that Christians honor by practice, not one. Never did a lord receive so little honest respect from his vessels; never a master so little true obedience from his servants."
-- LK Washburn, Is The Bible Worth Reading? And Other Essays, 1911

[MindForgedManacle]

It's rather hilarious when people talk about how Stalin and Hitler (a theist, mind you) killed lots of people and therefore this is what you get with atheist regimes. Aside from the fact that Hitler was a Catholic theist who backslid into some kind of weird paganism if I recall and got Papal support via his first treaty, this argument completely ignores the technological aspect. Give 1940s technology to the participants of the 8+ waves of the Crusades, 30-Years War, any supposed Old Testament genocide (the history of them actually happening is not exactly supportive, but Biblical literalists exist) and numerous other religion inspired wars (usually over the most retarded reasons imaginable) and you'd get similar numbers.

Not that such excuses Stalin and co., but to show one point in history wherein it isn't only theistic regimes committing atrocities is making a point you're not trying to make.