General argument for Islam.

[The Grand Nudger]

You mean...it's an allegory...a metaphor for a deeper truth....maybe?  Like a footrace between a tortoise and a hare? Perish the damned thought.  How very unique, how very full of wisdom.

[Mystic]

I think it's because the Prophet wanted to manifest his path was that of desire towards God. That of attraction of the beloved.

It wasn't simply that of honoring God or loving him, but that of his desire being attracted to God.

Also, it's not simply a metaphor, but a metaphysical reality. The station of intermediary between this world and the final destination of the next world, has metaphysical realities, in which our actions are alive and form a part of who we are. We have a metaphysical form and so does our desire.

In the beginning, we must kill our "desire" or "nafs", but it's only so it can be reborn into a buraq that will make us ascend the higher realms.



 

[Brakeman]

The Buraq is found in hadiths, and it's nature is unknown - I never came across any stating it is a horse with wings. Also, I believe it is a metaphysical thing, as stated in Du'a Nudba, it states God ascended his spirit to the heavens...I think there are spiritual realms, and the access to them is not simply a matter of physical distance, but there is a spiritual reality to them.

I was always the opinion that the Buraq is a metaphysical reality of the desire of Mohammad. It takes him to the higher places of proximity to God.

Really?,

So mo didn't ride one from Mecca to Jerusalem in one night? That story is a lie? So why aren't all of the writings from that author trashed as heretical?

http://www.harekrsna.de/artikel/islam-al-buraq.htm





Haaa! HA HA! How fucking ridiculous!

I bet mo got him some of that!

[paulpablo]

Paulpablo

Goodness to be me derives from a living reality, the Lord of the worlds.  Although we differ often in moralities, it doesn't change that there is source to goodness and especially, the good intention. As objective morality surely has to exist where goodness to be anything but a delusion,  it makes sense pure servants of God would have objective morality and be guided towards it.

It's obvious if you accept God, that there is infinite ranks to goodness, and that surely there is some people upon a very high rank from among his creation.

The question then is what does God do with these special people? What does he specially chose them for?

Does he bring them out to the people, manifest their virtue, raise their remembrance or does he leave them that people follow misguided leaders and falsehood?

Does he provide guidance through them and use them or not?

This is the next logical question.  I think by God's praiseworthy nature, we can know he would make such people examples to follow, leaders to incline to, pure servants to love, and exalt their mention.

I argue this is because God is graceful and merciful to his creation,  and wishes to make such people a mercy towards his creatures. I argue because God wishes to bring a balance against the misguidance and counter balance to the evil and the falsehood.

In my argument, you don't have to assume the Quran is true. You look at the wisdom present in Quran, think about it logically, find it exalted, and find it unique towards the holy book or faiths that are offshoots of the holy book.

So your general argument for Islam is an argument for Islam for people who have already accepted the quran is exalted unique and true?

From your perspective surely there is a massive inbalance between good and evil. 

Most of the world commits shirk in the form of hindus and Christians which is a sin that can never be forgiven.  Then there's growing numbers of atheists, if I remember right you're a shia Muslim so most Muslims don't believe the exact same thing as you do.

If there is a god and he wants the world to believe the exact same things you do then surely this god has not only failed to do this but the end result is most of humanity worshiping the exact thing he told humanity not to worship.

[The Grand Nudger]

Also, it's not simply a metaphor, but a metaphysical reality. 


 

-as the tale of the tortoise and the hare is not simply metaphor, but a metaphysical reality.  

[Mystic]

So your general argument for Islam is an argument for Islam for people who have already accepted the quran is exalted unique and true?

You would have to accept the Wisdom I showed in the OP, and then look for it would be found.  Where it is found to be surely is the truth.

From your perspective surely there is a massive inbalance between good and evil.  

Most of the world commits shirk in the form of hindus and Christians which is a sin that can never be forgiven.  Then there's growing numbers of atheists, if I remember right you're a shia Muslim so most Muslims don't believe the exact same thing as you do.

If there is a god and he wants the world to believe the exact same things you do then surely this god has not only failed to do this but the end result is most of humanity worshiping the exact thing he told humanity not to worship.

Associating with God is considered when you knowingly put with God others. Whether most Christians know better or not,  I do not know, but we have to keep this in mind.  It's only a sin that won't be forgiven if you know better. 
Say there is no revelation. Would I believe God wants people to follow the truth anyways? Yes I would. Would I believe he wants people to ascend to him, receive wisdom, and strive for justice. Yes I would.  The world would still be engulfed in falsehood, injustice still there, and people not striving to get close to God would still happen, and false religions still there. But with Islam, there is help from God, and ultimate promise of victory of truth vs falsehood, of good against evil.  And with Islam, the best people did do their best to guide humanity through out the ages.  And with Islam, guidance is more easily accessible and reminders take place, and there is book giving insights to humanity. There is judgement that guides through the differences, giving light and sight to those seeking the path to God.

[paulpablo]

So your general argument for Islam is an argument for Islam for people who have already accepted the quran is exalted unique and true?

You would have to accept the Wisdom I showed in the OP, and then look for it would be found.  Where it is found to be surely is the truth.

From your perspective surely there is a massive inbalance between good and evil.  

Most of the world commits shirk in the form of hindus and Christians which is a sin that can never be forgiven.  Then there's growing numbers of atheists, if I remember right you're a shia Muslim so most Muslims don't believe the exact same thing as you do.

If there is a god and he wants the world to believe the exact same things you do then surely this god has not only failed to do this but the end result is most of humanity worshiping the exact thing he told humanity not to worship.

Associating with God is considered when you knowingly put with God others. Whether most Christians know better or not,  I do not know, but we have to keep this in mind.  It's only a sin that won't be forgiven if you know better. 
Say there is no revelation. Would I believe God wants people to follow the truth anyways? Yes I would. Would I believe he wants people to ascend to him, receive wisdom, and strive for justice. Yes I would.  The world would still be engulfed in falsehood, injustice still there, and people not striving to get close to God would still happen, and false religions still there. But with Islam, there is help from God, and ultimate promise of victory of truth vs falsehood, of good against evil.  And with Islam, the best people did do their best to guide humanity through out the ages.  And with Islam, guidance is more easily accessible and reminders take place, and there is book giving insights to humanity. There is judgement that guides through the differences, giving light and sight to those seeking the path to God.

Where does it say in the quran that shirk is only a sin that won't be forgiven if people know better?

[Angrboda]

Brahmin (also called Brahmana) is a varna in Vedic Hinduism and also a caste of people who are members of it. Members are subdivided into numerous communities known as gotras. Most of the practicing Brahmins adhere to the principles such as acceptance of the Vedas with reverence; recognition of the fact that the means or ways to salvation and realization of the truth are diverse; God is one, but has innumerable names and forms to chant and worship due to our varied perceptions, cultures and languages; that a Brahmin works for the welfare of the entire society and so on. Daily practices of Brahmins include sandhyavandana (prayers to Gayatri and Sun God), prayer to ishtadaiva or ilavelpu (personal God), yoga, non-violence, vegetarianism etc. Everything in the daily life of a Brahmin is a ritual. However, special rituals include marriage, ritual conception and consummation of the wedding, rituals of childbirth, naming ceremony, first feeding ceremony, the child’s first tonsure, upanayana (the sacred-thread ceremony - initiation into vedic learning and ritual), ritual baths, cremation rituals, shraaddha, etc. All of these rituals are very important for a practicing Brahmin.

Wikipedia | Brahmin

Hinduism has something similar.

[Mystic]

Really?,

So mo didn't ride one from Mecca to Jerusalem in one night? That story is a lie?

That's the Sunni interpretation, "The holiest masjid (place of prostration)" according to Shia hadiths refers to a place in heaven. From a Shia tafsir:
 أي إلى ملكوت المسجد الأقصى الذي هو في السّماءِ كما يظهر من الأخبار الآتِيَةِ


Meaning the spiritual kingdom of holiest masjid that is in the sky just as the reports (from Imams) say that I will bring.

[The Grand Nudger]

We talking the sky...sky.  Big blue thing over my head, or is that metaphor for metaphysical reality as well? Like how the greek gods live on Mt. Olympus?