Ask a Catholic

[Randy Carson]

Does a physician need to have experienced a heart attack himself in order to give advice about diet and exercise as it relates to lowering your cholesterol? Does a counselor need to have been a heroin addict herself in order to advise a junkie about the dangers of unclean hypodermic needles?

I'm not trying to make light of this objection...I have heard it before from Protestants who also object to the celibacy of Catholic priests...I'm simply saying that the clinical psychiatrist with a PhD in family counseling might never have experienced ALL of the problems that his patients may discuss in his office, but that doesn't mean he's not able to effectively provide solutions to those who are hurting...even if he IS wearing a collar.

Of course not. But they have received appropriate training, whereas priests have not. Their knowledge about marriage and family is restricted to the bible [emphasis added], which as I mentioned, doesn't address everything and contains outdated views that don't apply to today's families.

Next, I see a slight contradiction here

Really? With a thorough understanding of the theology of marriage, they may have a better grasp of what marriage is than secular counselors. But if experience with sexuality is the problem, perhaps it would be better to consult a prostitute.

Well, these things might be true, I suppose, under normal circumstances. But we're talking about men whom, it may be presumed, are responding to a call from GOD. And if God calls, He also grants the grace.

And

You will get no argument from me here. I was a candidate at a Trappist monastery for five years, and I did meet with the vocation director of the Archdiocese of Atlanta when I was a student there. So, I had a little insight into what was required for entrance into the religious life or priesthood. Let me just say that psychological profiling is an important component of candidate evaluation and - in light of all that has gone on with regard to the pedophile priest scandal - an even more significant factor today than in the past.

I can assure you that seminaries and monasteries do NOT want men who are anything less than 100% healthy, happy and well-adjusted because religious life is no escape. If anything, it is a pressure cooker that turns UP the heat...not down.

That does not compute. If god calls, why does priesthood attract inappropriate people? Why is psychological profiling needed?

Because the directors of the seminaries are NOT omniscient. God does call the legitimate candidates, but others can apply for unsuitable reasons. And these in the latter are just as convinced of their calling as those in the former group. Knowing which is which is not easy.

Are you saying that the negative biological and psychological effects of celibacy are not present because god ensures they do not occur? IOW, is god making sure that priests are fit for priesthood? Why the profiling then, and whence cometh the pedophile priests?

It appears contradictory that god allegedly gets rid of the side effects of celibacy, yet calls the wrong people all the time.

Priests are still human! They still have the same temptations that are common to all of us. Some unfit men can and do slip through, and this is painfully obvious when you see the headlines about the abuse that occurred in some places at the hands of priests who should never have been ordained. Psychological testing is only part of the discernment process, and all of it is subject to human error. The amazing thing to me is that God continues to maintain His Church despite the VERY imperfect materials He has to work with - humans!

Also, I found this interesting, coming from a former priest:

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One of the most unrecognized temptations faced by the vowed celibate is loneliness. This may sound contrary to the last point, because celibates interact with people through their various ministries. How can one be lonely when one is surrounded by people?

The loneliness of celibacy can be due to the inability to form exclusive relationships. Think of it this way: a single person called to marriage can experience loneliness even though such a person is in school or works with people and has friendships.

What marriage offers people is not simply company in a given moment, but the gift of shared memories and shared goals as a relationship is built over time. Married people do not experience the loneliness of a celibate. Some celibates are tempted to fill this hole from time to time with sexual pleasure.

I suspect that one of the reasons heterosexual priests break their vows is that they are called to priesthood, but were never called to celibacy. The two vocations are not identical.

---

I imagine that loneliness is a big deal for many priests. It is a calling, but it is also a sacrifice. Very complex, all in all. I don't think anyone could do it if it were not for the grace that God gives to live it.

I'm relieved to find out about the requirements, though. That is a good practice.

Cool. Enough on this topic?

[The Grand Nudger]

Loneliness is probably a big deal for monks too, must -also- be the grace of god propping them up and giving them strength?  Buddhist monks, mind you. You christers have a nasty habit of crediting your absentee god for things he has no hand in.....I think.

It -cheapens- everything.

[Longhorn]

Cool. Enough on this topic?

Not convinced on the whole taking away the side effects thing, and still wouldn't take relationship advice from a priest.... I would argue further but that would be drifting away from the original point and since there are so many, let's not drag it out. Agree to disagree, and all that

[Jenny A]

The Harvard study ending in 2003 was massive and comprehensive using 29,000 men.  IT and the Australian study using 2300 men reached the conclusion that frequent ejaculation does reduce prostate cancer risk by 36% or there abouts. http://www.harvardprostateknowledge.org/...ate-cancer  http://urology.jhu.edu/newsletter/prosta...cer712.php

Hey, I have no problem with frequent...um...orgasm. I'll bring this study to my wife's attention later this evening. Thanks.

I hope you and your wife had a lovely evening.  Though if you did, I doubt the study was necessary.  Some things are good in and of themselves.

[Randy Carson]

15. That people can be infallible.

I'd like to address this point next, I think. But first, can you tell me which people you are referring to?

[The Grand Nudger]

"People" is a pretty inclusive term, don't you think? Do you need to draw some lines in the sand here between the fallible ones and the infallible ones,....... whats the deal, got someone in mind?

[Metis]

Hello Randy, I do believe I've seen you on Catholic answers. I've got a question for you, one which I saw a new member (or Trial Member as they're called there) ask on CA only yesterday and be banned for "contempt for Catholicism" within four minutes for doing so.

Why does the Catholic Church encourage telling lies to ones spouse?

I mean, lets look at the concept of "Radical Convalidation". For everyone else here that doesn't know if a Catholic marries outside the Catholic Church without the permission of a Bishop the Catholic Church says the marriage is "invalid"; it never happened and the couple is living in sin whoring it about. Fear not, the Catholic Church is ever so forgiving and if you ask the local priest very nicely for permission he in his mercy may graciously grant permission to marry; where the marriage is then "validated" and accepted as legal within the Church.

Now very often you get one spouse who isn't Catholic, is very offended to be told their Greek Orthodox or Anglican wedding ceremony wasn't "valid" and is a whore living in sin and doesn't want to ask the Catholic Church for permission to marry. In these scenarios Catholics are ordered to obtain "secret radical convalidation", where they can apologise on the rebellious spouses behalf and obtain the permission to marry that the spouse doesn't want to ask for. Essentially throwing their wishes in the trash.

Now I know the Catholic Church doesn't give two shits about peoples freedom of conscience or freedom of/from religion (Pius IX in the Syllabus of Errors actually infallibly defined the only acceptable "Freedom of Religion" as "The freedom the practice the only true religion; Catholicism".) But I thought telling lies was bad, but the Catholic Church seems to very strongly encourage it.

Lets look at the sacrament of confession too, whatever is said inside won't be told to anyone else. So the cheating husband who could have caught aids from a prostitute can go on cheating and not give his wife any warning he might be giving her a life threatening STD. The murderer can go on out free as a bird. Again, the Catholic Church is encouraging deceit, and quite often is getting away with perverting the course of justice under the guise of "religious practice".

I don't say this to be malicious, it seems the Catholic Church for an organization that preaches about truth spends an awful lot of time encouraging deception. I mean biggest of all lets look at the sin of "scandal". It basically boils down (for non Catholic/theologians out there) as "it's a bigger sin to be thought to be sinning than to actually be sinning". So if you rape a child, it's better to not tell anyone, because if people think you may have raped a child it's worse than actually raping a child, but if you do it and keep it hushed up, it's not as bad.

I wish I was making these crazy scenarios up, but after my research dissertation for my M.A about Catholic Sex Abuse in Newfoundland nothing can really surprise me anymore.

How do you explain it Randy? Why is it good and holy to lie to the police to protect rapists and tell lies to your wife?

[Longhorn]

15. That people can be infallible.

I'd like to address this point next, I think. But first, can you tell me which people you are referring to?

The pope.

[Randy Carson]

Hello Randy, I do believe I've seen you on Catholic answers. I've got a question for you, one which I saw a new member (or Trial Member as they're called there) ask on CA only yesterday and be banned for "contempt for Catholicism" within four minutes for doing so.

Why does the Catholic Church encourage telling lies to ones spouse?

I mean, lets look at the concept of "Radical Convalidation". For everyone else here that doesn't know if a Catholic marries outside the Catholic Church without the permission of a Bishop the Catholic Church says the marriage is "invalid"; it never happened and the couple is living in sin whoring it about. Fear not, the Catholic Church is ever so forgiving and if you ask the local priest very nicely for permission he in his mercy may graciously grant permission to marry; where the marriage is then "validated" and accepted as legal within the Church.

Now very often you get one spouse who isn't Catholic, is very offended to be told their Greek Orthodox or Anglican wedding ceremony wasn't "valid" and is a whore living in sin and doesn't want to ask the Catholic Church for permission to marry. In these scenarios Catholics are ordered to obtain "secret radical convalidation", where they can apologise on the rebellious spouses behalf and obtain the permission to marry that the spouse doesn't want to ask for. Essentially throwing their wishes in the trash.

Now I know the Catholic Church doesn't give two shits about peoples freedom of conscience or freedom of/from religion (Pius IX in the Syllabus of Errors actually infallibly defined the only acceptable "Freedom of Religion" as "The freedom the practice the only true religion; Catholicism".) But I thought telling lies was bad, but the Catholic Church seems to very strongly encourage it.

Lets look at the sacrament of confession too, whatever is said inside won't be told to anyone else. So the cheating husband who could have caught aids from a prostitute can go on cheating and not give his wife any warning he might be giving her a life threatening STD. The murderer can go on out free as a bird. Again, the Catholic Church is encouraging deceit, and quite often is getting away with perverting the course of justice under the guise of "religious practice".

I don't say this to be malicious, it seems the Catholic Church for an organization that preaches about truth spends an awful lot of time encouraging deception. I mean biggest of all lets look at the sin of "scandal". It basically boils down (for non Catholic/theologians out there) as "it's a bigger sin to be thought to be sinning than to actually be sinning". So if you rape a child, it's better to not tell anyone, because if people think you may have raped a child it's worse than actually raping a child, but if you do it and keep it hushed up, it's not as bad.

I wish I was making these crazy scenarios up, but after my research dissertation for my M.A about Catholic Sex Abuse in Newfoundland nothing can really surprise me anymore.

How do you explain it Randy? Why is it good and holy to lie to the police to protect rapists and tell lies to your wife?

This is one of those cases where I'll have to do a bunch of research to provide an answer.

Let me get back to you on this, okay?

[Metis]

Oh sure, It is a pretty vague mishmash there. Odd as it might sound I hadn't actually pictured it that way myself until I read it on Catholic Answers. I'm still mulling it over in my own mind and actually asking on a few Orthodox forums I frequent, since I suppose the bit about confession does apply to them too.

I'm actually quite grateful you're willing to do the research into it, thank you I have to admit while I am a qualified in theology (I know, Athiest Theologian, long story) most of my actual theological training is based around Orthodoxy and Protestantism; while I have written about events like sex abuse my grasp of Catholic doctrine is admittedly somewhat weaker. You probably have a better idea of where to look than I do.