Muhammad the Greatest: A Comparative Study

[Dee Dee Ramone]

Quick question, if I may - if the OT is so out of kilter with xtian NT beliefs, why not scrap it altogether? It's a bit like running Windows 7 and Windows 95 at the same time; there's bound to be conflicts.

The OT was designed to produce a nation that displayed God's character, to keep the knowledge of God alive. Strong laws were enforced to try to prevent regression back to the pagan customs that were prevalent, including sexual passion, child blood sacrifice, and the like. Prophets of God were sent to warn people if they were moving away from God's idea of society, and if they replaced God with idols God would destroy the idol worship and repopulate the land. He purified the land. The whole of the blood sacrifice was a visual picture of the fact God required a sacrifice, the sacrifice was his own son, God came in the flesh, took upon himself our sin, and was punished for it in our place. Now as a Christian it is not Gods desire to maintain the sacrifices any more, the need for a nation to preserve the knowledge of God is no more needed. The bible is preserved, God now has expended salvation to all men. Not that he has ever kept me from faith, but salvation used to be by becoming a Jew and obeying the law. But as I said the law was only designed to build society, Christianity is not a country. It is not wrong to use the OT to know how God wants us to live our lives but it is wrong to try inflict judgment on the every day person.

Jesus said one thing regarding the law, he said "God wants mercy, not sacrifice", God is a god of mercy, if you start hearing too much judgment, even from me, too much hell fire, too much you are all sinners, that is not mercy it is judgment. God is merciful. The bible says Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. To understand Gods character you need to understand the NT, Jesus, and the apostles, the OT is still used, but not the laws.

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Either way, statistics aren't in anyone's favor for the lottery either. Are all lottery wins therefore acts of god?

My wife won't let me, but I want to buy lottery tickets. Might sound insane, but I am sure give how many things I have seen God do in manipulation random events, that I am sure I could win.

Rapist wins 7 million in lottery

[FutureAndAHope]

But?!?!? YOU, never got stabbed. How in the flying fuck do you prove god because a voice asked if you would like to get stabbed, but another takes the punishment without your involvement.

God asked me "How would I like to be stabbed?", that is a question, he did not say "I am going to stab you". But the response to that question would be, I would not like it. He was asking me for the sake of the man who had been stabbed. I met a man who had been stabbed on the same day he asked me the question, so I could simpathise with him. Not that I really was full of emotion, companionship, and tears. But God was, he had a plan, for relationship with the man. He became a Christian, not because I told him God spoke to me, but God just moved on his heart. A relationship contary to your belief is a good thing. God does not mess with your life 24/7 giving you uncontrollable voices, demanding you obey. I rearly ever hear him. But life is good, my life is balanced, I enjoy it, he just keeps things smooth. That guy, who was stabbed had been through hell in hospital. And you can understand why God would say "How would you like it to happen to you?", I would not, and i hope it never happens. But that man now has a valuable thing a relationship with a God who wants his life to just go smoothly. God does not control my life he guides it.

[Darkstar]

My wife won't let me, but I want to buy lottery tickets. Might sound insane, but I am sure give how many things I have seen God do in manipulation random events, that I am sure I could win.

Rapist wins 7 million in lottery

On that note: when did god ever condem rape? So long as you paid the father, all was forgiven. Heck, you even got your victim as a wife!

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Deuteronomy 22:28-29
If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

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Not that I really was full of emotion, companionship, and tears. But God was, he had a plan, for relationship with the man.

God so cared for that man that he let him get stabbed just so he could show you...?

[Cato]

God does not control my life he guides it.

I'm sure Job had the same thought.

[FutureAndAHope]

On that note: when did god ever condem rape? So long as you paid the father, all was forgiven. Heck, you even got your victim as a wife!

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Deuteronomy 22:28-29
If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Just a note on that verse it does not in the Hebrew actually use the word rape. In the original it says if a man "takes" a virgin an they are found. The word take is the same word used in the following scripture for "handle" a harp. So there is no need to think the person forced, or raped the girl. The Hebrew just says "take". You can take a person and have sex, and it be nothing to do with rape. Some English translations of the bible are just taking things too far. They have just always thought it ment rape so they use the word, the word is not actually even in the original text, or any Hebrew text.

Gen 4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.

The CEV actually translates this verse more correctly as:

Deu 22:28 Suppose a woman isn't engaged to be married, and a man talks her into sleeping with him. If they are caught,

[Dee Dee Ramone]

Just a note on that verse it does not in the Hebrew actually use the word rape. In the original it says if a man "takes" a virgin an they are found. The word take is the same word used in the following scripture for "handle" a harp. So there is no need to think the person forced, or raped the girl. The Hebrew just says "take". You can take a person and have sex, and it be nothing to do with rape. Some English translations of the bible are just taking things too far. They have just always thought it ment rape so they use the word, the word is not actually even in the original text, or any Hebrew text.

Gen 4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.

The CEV actually translates this verse more correctly as:

Deu 22:28 Suppose a woman isn't engaged to be married, and a man talks her into sleeping with him. If they are caught,

This makes perfect sense!!

[Darkstar]

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0522.htm

You be the judge.

[Cato]

Just a note on that verse it does not in the Hebrew actually use the word rape. In the original it says if a man "takes" a virgin an they are found. The word take is the same word used in the following scripture for "handle" a harp. So there is no need to think the person forced, or raped the girl. The Hebrew just says "take". You can take a person and have sex, and it be nothing to do with rape. Some English translations of the bible are just taking things too far. They have just always thought it ment rape so they use the word, the word is not actually even in the original text, or any Hebrew text.

Gen 4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.

The CEV actually translates this verse more correctly as:

Deu 22:28 Suppose a woman isn't engaged to be married, and a man talks her into sleeping with him. If they are caught,

Fuck me! Another 'original' language translation argument. Is god incapable of communicating with me in the tongue he birthed me into?

[Dee Dee Ramone]

Fuck me! Another 'original' language translation argument. Is god incapable of communicating with me in the tongue he birthed me into?

No, that's because what happened near the tower of Babel.

[FutureAndAHope]

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0522.htm

You be the judge.

What we have to look at when translating this word is what is its meaning, does it have any implied forcefulness to it. "Lay hold of" is ONE possible translation of the sentance. But does the single word mean rape. Lets look at my signature verse:

Gen 4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.

It uses exactly the same word, but translated as "handle", or "play and instrument". Note it is just one word, not three "lay hold of", just one. That one word in Gen 4:21 can mean to play an instrument. Playing an instrument is not a violent act unless you are ACDC or some heavy rock band. It is gentile. So the one word can't mean forcefully, or with anger, rage, or violence, take something. It can still be used for forceful things, like "take" a city. But when translating you need to look at the context of the verse, we know it does not mean forcefully take, so we have to just translate it as "take". So lets take the verse in your image.

If a man find a virgin who is not betrothed and take her and lie with her and they are found.

Now that does not say rape, you have to want it to say rape.