(November 22, 2015 at 9:19 pm)Lek Wrote:(November 22, 2015 at 9:14 pm)Cecelia Wrote: Sure. It can be justified in self defense. Or in times of war (though usually that's a case of self defense, or for the defense of others). It's not justifiable in the case of wanting information.
What if obtaining that information could save many innocent lives?
The Dick Cheney fantasy. There is a general problem with terrorists. You tend to catch them after they strike, not before. We've had the NSA spying on the whole fucking country and they are unable to cite a single case where that has prevented a single attack.
Most of the attacks that are stopped are infiltrated by informants - a civil libertarian might suggest that the FBI informants are entrapping them but let's not worry about that now...IOW, the old-fashioned way.
Sadly it comes down to, are you willing to be as big a scumbag as the other side. You seem quite ready to step forward and say "Yes, I Am." Which is sad because we managed to defeat Germany and Japan without torturing prisoners. In fact, our treatment of enemy POWs was generally exemplary.
I think you better go back and read that fucking bible of yours. You seem to have glossed over quite a bit of it.