(November 23, 2015 at 1:28 pm)Lek Wrote:(November 23, 2015 at 1:44 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Oh, and.people can and do die under torture, so let's not pretend that accidents death under torture is okay, unless you're willing to defend the idea that the ends justifies the means ... which you're sorta doing already.
I'll be honest with you. Since I'm no expert, I don't really know if torture works or not. I also don't believe in most types of torture. But I can't see what is worse about waterboarding avowed killers of children, in an attempt to find out information that could saves lives, than outright killing people to defend ourselves. Isn't killing people already a matter of the ends justifying the means? Maybe war itself is unjustifiable. The problem with war is that you can't make it neat and clean. It's a perplexing issue.
And so again we see the atheists show superior morals to the theist.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.