(December 28, 2015 at 12:32 pm)Crossless1 Wrote:Again if you want to have this debate watch the movie, take notes and address the monuments, papyrus and the archaeological evidence documented by the movie, acknowledged by Egyptology, and suppressed in the "Absolutely no evidence for egyptian enslavement of the descendants of Abraham." argument.(December 28, 2015 at 11:49 am)Drich Wrote: at the end of this you feel that 'mainstream egyptologists' have been out right ignorant or lying to you. Makes you wonder how many other fields of 'advanced study/learning' is also flat out lying.
So in the space of two sentences we go from "ignorant or lying" to "flat out lying. That's cute. I doubt you spend much time wondering which other fields of advanced study/learning are also conspiracies of lies to gull the faithless and mislead God's warriors, so let's have it. Please inform me which other fields of academic human endeavor you see fit to pronounce upon without a minute's training in the relevant disciplines.
Quote:Sometimes I have trouble deciding which is more breath-taking: your arrogance or the degree of your anti-intellectualism.says the person who has burried his head in the sand, and is ignoring a simple documentry that has documented undeniable proof that is truly being suppressed by word games (No Jews/israelites were ever slaves to egypt. That is because The Jews were not known as jews till after the exodus) Durning the time they spent in egypt they were egyptians/egyptian slaves
The other 1/2 of the word game is a time line forced on to the exodus by people who says it did not happen, but if it did it would have to happen in a time period in which their is no evidence, rather than a time period where their is absolutly evidence for every single major event recorded in exodus.
The reason I say it is undeniable is because the professors archaeologists and egyptologists who oppose this evidence do not deny the viablity of the evidence, they simply ascribe it to a similar situation that happened to a different semetic people that egypt did enslave because of the supposed time line discrepency or because Israel was not mentioned by name. (which again was not a name the people had yet) They were simply the semetic family of Joseph who saved Egypt from a great famine and consolidated all gubernatorial power under pharaoh during the famine. (which again is recorded in Egyptian history in the middle kingdom)
It is absolutely ridiculous! to watched these supposed "intellectuals" stammer and stutter their way through trying to reconcile their area of expertise with the rest of the evidence, while trying to maintain the greater idea that their is not evidence for the exodus.
Quote:Serious question: if the case made in this film is so compelling, why is it buried in a documentary that was shown in a relative handful of church basements rather than hashed out in the appropriate peer-reviewed journals?Dude. it's on net flix.. what about streaming a movie from net flix is "a showing in a church basement, to you?" Or haven't you even bothered to read the OP, and you are just persuming to know...
How ironically typical.
Your question should be why isn't the evidence accepted?
Two reasons. the time line issue is the greatest 'excuse.' which again is a non issue because the bible does not place the exodus in a specific time. The Egyptologists assume a late dynasy exodus because of jewish tradition, which again is not confirmed scripturaly. So the going explaination by the dozen or so anti exodus experts for the evidence is literly: "these things happened to a different semetic people that egypt enslaved." Not the Jews.
Why? Because for the second most popular reason the Jews were not mentioned by name until after the middle dynasty was over (which again is the movie's time line for the exodus/the reason for the fall of the middle dynasty.) or according to hacks like Hawass they are not mentioned at all in any egyptian document. Which is an out and out lie.
(people who try and float that out right lie tend to be of the Muslim faith, or are simply ignorant parrots who are just repeating what they heard from people like hawass)
Quote: And don't give me any of the standard-issue fundie crap about how believers' ideas are shut out of the academy. If there is a real case to be made within the relevant academic disciplines, there is a way to go about it, and pandering to groups of people who are desperate to have their approach to Biblical historicity confirmed is not that way.Let's review what was found/is confirmed by historians:
The found a semetic city, around that city, 25 to 30 towns and villages All Semetic/nomadic in orgin/sheep herders. Different culture, different God, different race of people than the standard egypt born egyptian. In the beginning and for some time they were very prosperous. Excavation of grave sites confirm strong skeletal/well nourished and graves with gold, daggers and semetic pottery found. They found Joseph's house. later was replaced by Egyptian palace with semetic over tones. in the back A grave/Mini pyramid containing a statue of a semite ruler holding a semetic version of a boomerang. donning pale skin, red hair and a semetic robe of many colors. (which is absolute un heard of period in the rest of egyptian history as outsiders were never honored with a pyramid burial) along side this pyramid were twelve semetic tombs of high honor. One for each one of Joseph's brothers/The 12 tribes of Israel. Also found in the excavation a mass infant young male grave from about the time moses would have been born. (pharaoh's decree that all the young boys and male infants be killed)
Also at that time these people went from well nourished and living long lives to being poorly nourished and living to maybe 30. while egyptian graves of that time show that they were well nourished and still living long lives.
What was the guy who is doing the actual exavation have to say about all of this?
"Wrong time period, must be a different semetic people who's story just so happen l mirrors the jews." Literally this is what the guy who is incharge of the dig said!
Then we have the brooklyn papryus. This is a recognized document that contains a list from around the 12th century BC (just before the exodus/same period as the dig) that contain 100 Jewish only names all of which were identified as slaves. Jewish only Meaning names unique to what we know to be the jewish people.
Curator of the museum said "wrong time period"
Then we have papryus named "The admonisions of an egyptian sage" which records the state of egyptian affairs at the end of the middle kingdom. (which is a direct result of the pharaoh being killed along with his army/at the bottom of the red sea, the jews walking away with all of egypt's riches, and the death of all the first born sons of eygpt, along with the total destruction of Egypt's crops and live stock brough on by the plague.)
In this papyrus the nile turning to blood, hail and fire from the sky is mentioned, which destroys all of the crops and the blood water kills off the live stock, plague, flies and the death of egyptians on a mass scale is also recorded.
http://raseneb.tripod.com/Ipuwer.htm
What does this museum curator who was interviewed have to say?
This was all made up, this court appointed historian (the egyptian sage) made all of this up from scarry stories of long past kingdoms. plus he said "the hand writting style firmly places the document at the end of the middle kingdom which is far to early for the exodus."
Plus he add: "why would the affluent be so devestated while the slaves made off with all their prized possessions?" (why wouldn't the plagues also have devestated the slave population/why wouldn't the army of egypt have stopped them?)
Again, We have our answer in the bible.
So, You tell me sport. this is just three points of just three major events in the documentry mentions It catalogs a whole lot more, but the answer given by the anti exodus expert is always the same. Also know the movie does not only provide the bible perspective. The film make goes out of his way to bring the top experts in to represent their little piece of egytpian history. so you can make up your own mind.
You tell me how they all can just dissmiss the bible because of the 'wrong time period' excuse when clearly the bible does not book end the entrance and exodus of the jews in egypt.
You tell me why all of them want to attribute all of these documented events and archaeological evidence to 'some other semetic people who just so happen to mirror the jews right down to the exodus.' Why not simply adjust the time line for events that they say could not happen for lack of evidence, To a time period that completely supports the exodus?!?
Oh, and when you realize that people like that/people like you desperately don't want the bible to be true are indeed burying their heads in the sand is indeed the reason and only reason, they will not acknoweledge the exodus then you can appreciate what and why/how my godwin statement is completely valid.
If you like take hitler out of the equasion. You still have propaganda. you have an orgnazition pumping out miss information that completely contradicts the evidence.
That is why I title this thread what I did.. This discussion is for those who only want proof of the exodus, not for those who want thier ears tickled with reassuring anti-God propaganda. Other wise ask yourself this sport: what does it matter to you if the exodus is true or not if the reality is their is no God?
What you are all seem equal blind to is the fact that their should/would not be an argument over time lines or what did or did not happen to the jews is it not for God being up held as the author of this egyptian destruction.
drich Wrote:It kinda makes you guys look like the Germans who bought Hitler's propaganda hook line and sinker. Kinda gives some incite as to how easy it was for basically a 'good' person to get swallowed up into a propaganda machine.
Quote:Leaving aside from your demonstrated love of Godwin, even when it is entirely irrelevant (as here), I can only shake my head in amazement that someone could hoist so much unintended irony into two sentences without a crane.Now your failure is complete..
The irony was indended sport, now just keep digging and you might find just one more level of irony if you are indeed at all concerned with the truth.