Hey, I'm new

[theVOID]

Well, maybe I've not. I told you there were too many questions asked at once.

No problem, We'll slow it down a notch.

how would 'something' let's presume it's an object; that exists all the time be natural?

Presume it's an object? No, let's stick to what I actually think okay?

It would necessarily be energy, one of the most fundamental concepts in physics requires as much, the law of the conservation of energy, the energy in an isolated system remains constant. This is commonly stated as "energy cannot be created or destroyed".

iow. what is your presumed natural 'something' that can exist all the time? or is it that you don't know.

Energy.

And even if I didn't have such an immediate and empirically supported answer to your question, you were the one claiming that such a thing (a natural thing) could not always exist - That places the burden of proof squarely in your corner.

why do you think that- something that can exist all the time, w/o any beginning (cause if it had a beginning, it would've come out of nothing), do not necessarily has great power or is not a superior being?

Energy doesn't have a beginning.

We have absolutely no reason to think that something having great 'power' (and I'll need your definition of power) is required for it to always exist. Why does it have to be a being? Persons are amongst the most complex systems in the universe, what makes you think that would be the first thing to exist?

I believe in Quran, because it is the literal truth.

So Muhammed flew around on a winged unicorn? and dunking a fly in your drink is a good way to stay healthy?

I believe in all the parts of the Quran. The method is simple. History tells that the Quran we find today is the same Quran written by Muhammed during the 6th century.

I don't know a hell of a lot about the Quran, but I'll tell you right now I couldn't care less if the Quran hasn't changed, that has absolutely no bearing on it's truth.

Because my perceptions are based on the Quran, which was written during Muhammed's life.
Not based on my own made up ideas.

So you're right they're wrong. Simple, huh?

And the word you're looking for isn't "perceptions" it's "presuppositions".

Or hadiths that were written 300 years after the death of Mhammed (presumed to be Muhammed's word).

I have no problem agreeing here.

"Allah created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, in six days" (7:54)
but in Quran, use of the Arabic word "youm" (day) is understood to be something different from a normal day. In one case, the measure of a day is equated with 50,000 years (70:4), whereas another verse states that "a day in the sight of your Lord is like 1,000 years of your reckoning" (22:47). so, a day of God's creation should not be percieved as a day, but as long period of time. The universe so was created in six different ages not days.

Even at 50,000 years a "Day" you're still short by 4,499,700,000 years.... Hardly the bastion of accuracy there.

see, that's why I believe earth can be 4.5 bill. years as estimated by scientists. Quran doesn't say 4.5 bill. exactly but neither does it say anything that's against our established scientific claims. There's nothing unlike the Bible- which says it has to be 6 earthly days.

The same argument is made by Christians to account for their holy book being wrong. You are not unique here.

Here's another important point to note. see how both Quran and Bible states 6 days. it could be because both religion originated from God, but as I already told, Christianity got corrupted after the death of Jesus; maybe there were teachings of Jesus that pointed out that 6 days were not actually our counted six days, but it got removed because of its distortion by men.

Oh, corrupted huh? According to who?

There's a big explanation for this. But I'll try to briefly state it for you. all of us lived in God's kingdom, before the creation of the universe.

1. How do you know that?
2. Why don't I remember it?
3. You're saying I existed before my birth?

if this is true, then dont you think this minority of transgressing creatures deserve hell after all the chances they've missed. I don't believe we were created for this test, but we chose to take this test.

So what exactly do I have to repent for? And is this a case of "love god or burn"

And isn't it mighty convenient that you have a disclaimer right in there that I'm never going to see this proof of his existence. Yet I'm still expected to conclude he exists? What a farce.

Well i can see that you have a strong stand against this

I've just debated this stuff over and over, I have no interest in doing it again right now - Perhaps another time, for now let's focus on the stuff above.

Now, aren't you biased now? just because you've heard of this before and were not convinced, you're not going to give it a second chance.

Some other time maybe, but I really don't have the patience for you insisting "that nobody can replicate the Quran according to post-hoc constraint x, y and z" and then I say "I don't care, it's not evidence for god doing it, it just shows that when you tailor post hoc requirements to fit one text you likely won't find others to match" and then I'll take some book off my shelf and set up some mathematical constraints for the first few pages and you won't be able to match them and this will go back and forth etc etc..

Once we've gotten through the other stuff bring it up again and I'll debate it, but not right now.

[51:47] We constructed the sky with our hands, and we will continue to expand it.
did people in 6th century know that the universe is always expanding. then how was it written down in this book.

That's a mistranslation ripped straight from an apologetics website - Was that from truth in Islam or some other propaganda mill?

The translation above is mistaken or at best forced. Better translations of the last clause are "we are the ones who enrich it" (Pangloss 2003) or "we it is who made the vast extent" (Pickthall n.d.).

The following verse (51:48) says, "And the earth We have laid out." Suras 51:47-48 appear to be a rough translation of Isaiah 42:5: "Thus says God, the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread forth the earth and what comes from it. . . ." If divine origin is imputed on the basis of these verses, credit should go to the Bible, not the Qur'an.

The expansion interpretation was not noticed until after the expansion of the universe was well known through scientific observations. If Allah meant the Qur'an to indicate an expanding universe, the verse indicates that He was not competent to communicate clearly.