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Fruit trees and necessity
#21
RE: Fruit trees and necessity
(May 27, 2016 at 10:07 am)Mathilda Wrote:
(May 27, 2016 at 4:54 am)Ignorant Wrote: Here is a single question posed in two different formulas:

     1) Do fruit trees make fruit according to certain conditions or not?

     2) Do certain conditions determine that fruit trees make fruit or not?

<klaxon on>
Disingenuous equivocation detected. Sterilisation needed in-thread.
</klaxon off>


Both questions are the same when viewed as a process acting within a larger process. Reality is that the fruit tree is a living process maintaining homoeostasis in a dynamic environment.

But phrasing them in two different ways implicitly suggests that one object is passive and the other is active.

Q1 suggests that the fruit tree is making the fruit given an environment
Q2 suggests that the environment is making the fruit appear on the tree.

Neither is correct because the fruit tree is part of its environment.

Sorry but yes this is a trap. You are trying to narrow the option down to a yes / no answer which glosses over a deeper understanding of the phenomenon.

And yes I can guess what your next step will be. No, your god did not create life. The environment of the tree is not analogous to your god.

The reason I posed the question in two formulas is EXACTLY BECAUSE the fruit making involves BOTH the "passive" response to the environment AS WELL AS the "active" influence on the environment. I was trying to capture both by posing both formulations. There is no next step. God's existence is irrelevant to the questions I pose.
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Messages In This Thread
Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 4:54 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by robvalue - May 27, 2016 at 6:15 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 6:23 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by robvalue - May 27, 2016 at 6:38 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 7:37 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by brewer - May 27, 2016 at 7:43 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 7:44 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by brewer - May 27, 2016 at 7:55 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 7:59 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by LastPoet - May 27, 2016 at 8:25 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 8:32 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Little lunch - May 27, 2016 at 8:32 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 8:34 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by ignoramus - May 27, 2016 at 8:34 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 8:36 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by brewer - May 27, 2016 at 8:37 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by robvalue - May 27, 2016 at 9:00 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by The Grand Nudger - May 27, 2016 at 9:12 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 12:04 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by I_am_not_mafia - May 27, 2016 at 10:07 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 11:58 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by quip - May 27, 2016 at 12:18 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by bennyboy - May 27, 2016 at 10:22 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 12:06 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by quip - May 27, 2016 at 11:54 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 12:00 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Minimalist - May 27, 2016 at 12:07 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 12:07 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by The Grand Nudger - May 27, 2016 at 12:14 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 12:18 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by IATIA - May 27, 2016 at 12:25 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 12:27 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by The Grand Nudger - May 27, 2016 at 12:32 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 12:40 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by The Grand Nudger - May 27, 2016 at 12:55 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 1:39 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by The Grand Nudger - May 27, 2016 at 1:40 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 27, 2016 at 4:23 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 28, 2016 at 4:10 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Aoi Magi - May 27, 2016 at 6:37 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 28, 2016 at 4:10 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by ignoramus - May 27, 2016 at 8:23 pm
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by IATIA - May 28, 2016 at 12:58 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by ignoramus - May 28, 2016 at 1:28 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by robvalue - May 28, 2016 at 4:07 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by robvalue - May 28, 2016 at 4:15 am
RE: Fruit trees and necessity - by Ignorant - May 28, 2016 at 5:22 am

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