Why the religious will never admit you won the argument (and why they don't care)

[Mister Agenda]

So are you claiming that if there are limits to what can be determined concerning evolutionary history through the protein record, evolution is probably false?

There seems to be some confusion about the point I am making. I am not trying to disprove evolution.

I'm am claiming that if there are gaps in our knowledge (especially in the subject of the mechanism of evolution), one has to be more careful about using 'evolution' and 'fact' in the same sentence (as you did above regarding billions of theists). It simply is not true that biological evolution (defined as the end-to-end theory) is a fact because how can we say that if there are gaps in our knowledge? These gaps in our knowledge are not simply missing dinosaur puppy fossils, these gaps have to do with mechanisms and systems and relationships--extremely necessary components to the theory. It is more accurate to say "parts of the theory of evolution are fact", "decent with modification is a fact", "natural selection is a fact", etc.

The gaps in our knowledge are particularly NOT on the subject of the mechanism of evolution. Here's what would make evolution 'not a fact': descent with modification not resulting in new species.

When we say evolution is a fact, and by we I mean anyone you've talked to on this forum who has said it is a fact, we are talking about it being a fact that species evolve. When we say gravity is a fact, we are not claiming that the theory of gravity, end-to-end, is perfect. We're claiming that the thing the theory is supposed to be an explanation for is actually a real thing. When we say it's a fact that germs cause diseases, it does not mean that there is no such thing as a disease not caused by germs or that the germ theory of disease is perfect, end-to-end. The only person interpreting 'evolution is a fact' as 'there's nothing about evolution left to learn' is you.

What a waste of time if that's all you've been on about all along. You accept evolution, welcome to the club, even though it was like pulling teeth to get you to admit it.