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Human Devolution
#90
RE: Human Devolution
(January 20, 2017 at 8:01 pm)Mathilda Wrote:
(January 20, 2017 at 7:08 pm)Pulse Wrote: Again Let's look at the ATP Sythese enzyme which is a marvel of Engineering and had to have each of its component parts work from THE BEGINNING, to work properly, any part missing makes it useless. How could it possibly gradually evolve?? Not to mention myriads of other nano machines in the cell, that's what Behe was referring to, not bridges or ecosystems. I am concerned you put too blind much faith in GA.

A quick google search would have given you the answers. There's even a section on wikipedia about how ATP evolved

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATP_syntha...P_synthase

Quote:The evolution of ATP synthase is thought to be an example of modular evolution during which two functionally independent subunits became associated and gained new functionality.

Quoting from the article you linked and emphasis mine;

"The modular evolution theory for the origin of ATP synthase suggests that two subunits with independent function, a DNA helicase with ATPase activity and a H+
 motor, were able to bind, and the rotation of the motor drove the ATPase activity of the helicase in reverse.[6][10] This complex then evolved greater efficiency and eventually developed into today's intricate ATP synthases. Alternatively, the DNA helicase/Hmotor complex may have had H+
 pump activity with the ATPase activity of the helicase driving the H+
 motor in reverse.[6] This may have evolved to carry out the reverse reaction and act as an ATP synthase."

 Remember ATP is the energy currency of the cell, before ATP Synthase formed there would be no energy currency for ANY PROCESS IN THE CELL, INCLUDING THE FORMATION OF ATP SYTHASE, ITS A VICIOUS CIRCLE MATHILDA.

It is obvious the article has a lot of "mays" and speculation, how did the two seperate components find each other and bind so neatly and became so wonderfully efficient? The article is pure speculation leaving many unanswered questions.

 How did the two components form and why? DNA helicase has a specific function, why did it find just the perfect H+ motor and "decide" "This will make a great component to make ATP synthase"? And THEN it went back to the DNA molecule and "said" "Right Ive deiscovered ATP SYnthase now CODE FOR IT so we can keep making it?" How did it become encoded after it miraculously formed??

If the above Materialistic Theory is correct, why doesn't DNA helicase randomly bind to other components in the cell, making it perform random functions, some of which would surely be deleterious to the cell, thereby stopping evolution in its tracks and causing the extinction of every living cell on earth? In other words why did it bind to a H+ motor, and Nothing else, and make a Perfect enzyme and then perfectly encoded it into the DNA??

I'd like to point out quoting from Creation dot com in an article called Abiogenesis? THE FOLLOWING:

 "But … ATP Synthase is coded for on the DNA. So to get ATP Synthase you have to have the DNA coding for it. But to get the DNA code for ATP Synthase transcribed so as to get ATP Synthase, you need ATP to drive the transcription process. However, to get ATP to drive transcription, you need ATP Synthase to produce it. No ATP Synthase = no ATP = no transcription of DNA coding for ATP Synthase = no ATP Synthase = no ATP…"   



"Dr Dean Kenyon, Professor Emeritus of Biology at San Francisco State University, was a committed evolutionist and one of the earlier researchers into the idea of a chemical origin for life. He co-authored the book Biochemical Predestination in 1969 with fellow evolutionist, Gary Steinmanm, and it became a standard text on this subject. For many years he taught courses on evolution and the origin of life. Then he was exposed to some creationist writings and found them persuasive. He writes:

My own initiation into creationist scientific writing came in 1976 with the geological sections of Whitcomb and Morris’ The Genesis Flood, and somewhat later, A. E. Wilder-Smith’s The Creation of Life: A Cybernetic Approach to Evolution. It soon became apparent to me that the creationist challenge to evolutionism was indeed a formidable one, and I no longer believe that the arguments in Biochemical Predestination (Kenyon and Steinman, McGraw-Hill, 1969) and in similar books by other authors, add up to an adequate defence of the view that life arose spontaneously on this planet from nonliving matter.’7

He is now a fellow of the Discovery Institute, the leading Intelligent Design organization."

Abiogenesis is a theory in crisis, there are so many mysteries in the nano machinery of the cell that scientists even today are dumbfounded, chirality for example is completely baffling ;

Cohen, J., 1995. Getting all turned around over the origins of life on earth. Science, 267:1265–1266.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 19, 2017 at 6:02 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Crossless1 - January 19, 2017 at 6:04 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 19, 2017 at 6:08 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Crossless1 - January 19, 2017 at 6:09 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 19, 2017 at 6:15 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Crossless1 - January 19, 2017 at 6:18 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 19, 2017 at 6:36 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Cyberman - January 19, 2017 at 6:47 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Mister Agenda - January 23, 2017 at 11:52 am
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 19, 2017 at 6:14 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 19, 2017 at 6:31 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 19, 2017 at 6:40 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Aristocatt - January 19, 2017 at 9:20 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Thumpalumpacus - January 20, 2017 at 7:42 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Jesster - January 19, 2017 at 6:07 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by abaris - January 19, 2017 at 6:17 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - January 19, 2017 at 6:21 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by GUBU - January 20, 2017 at 11:55 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Cyberman - January 19, 2017 at 6:22 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 19, 2017 at 6:31 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 19, 2017 at 6:41 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 19, 2017 at 6:44 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 19, 2017 at 7:41 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by The Valkyrie - January 19, 2017 at 7:46 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by brewer - January 19, 2017 at 8:16 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Ravenshire - January 20, 2017 at 7:42 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 19, 2017 at 6:50 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 19, 2017 at 9:34 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by The Valkyrie - January 19, 2017 at 9:58 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Minimalist - January 19, 2017 at 6:33 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by The Valkyrie - January 19, 2017 at 6:39 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Cyberman - January 19, 2017 at 6:41 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by ignoramus - January 19, 2017 at 6:41 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Whateverist - January 19, 2017 at 10:12 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Minimalist - January 19, 2017 at 6:51 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by brewer - January 19, 2017 at 7:02 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Cyberman - January 19, 2017 at 7:02 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by vorlon13 - January 19, 2017 at 8:32 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - January 19, 2017 at 8:56 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 19, 2017 at 9:23 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by The Valkyrie - January 19, 2017 at 9:28 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 20, 2017 at 3:16 am
RE: Human Devolution - by chimp3 - January 19, 2017 at 10:18 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Angrboda - January 19, 2017 at 10:32 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 19, 2017 at 11:31 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by popeyespappy - January 19, 2017 at 11:13 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Angrboda - January 19, 2017 at 11:51 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 20, 2017 at 12:46 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Fake Messiah - January 20, 2017 at 1:26 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Whateverist - January 20, 2017 at 1:45 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Fake Messiah - January 20, 2017 at 12:37 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Astreja - January 20, 2017 at 12:37 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Angrboda - January 20, 2017 at 12:56 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 20, 2017 at 3:22 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Fake Messiah - January 20, 2017 at 3:57 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Angrboda - January 20, 2017 at 5:36 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Jesster - January 20, 2017 at 3:28 am
RE: Human Devolution - by robvalue - January 20, 2017 at 4:03 am
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 20, 2017 at 4:10 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 20, 2017 at 5:50 am
RE: Human Devolution - by pocaracas - January 20, 2017 at 6:32 am
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 20, 2017 at 2:11 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by brewer - January 20, 2017 at 5:05 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Whateverist - January 20, 2017 at 1:29 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Aristocatt - January 20, 2017 at 1:37 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Whateverist - January 20, 2017 at 9:36 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by robvalue - January 20, 2017 at 4:18 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Aristocatt - January 20, 2017 at 12:51 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by brewer - January 20, 2017 at 1:09 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Crossless1 - January 20, 2017 at 1:22 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Astreja - January 20, 2017 at 4:07 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Fake Messiah - January 20, 2017 at 4:10 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by LastPoet - January 20, 2017 at 4:37 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 20, 2017 at 6:04 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 20, 2017 at 5:59 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 20, 2017 at 6:05 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 20, 2017 at 6:17 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 20, 2017 at 7:08 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Cyberman - January 20, 2017 at 7:22 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Whateverist - January 20, 2017 at 9:47 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 20, 2017 at 8:01 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 20, 2017 at 8:45 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Cyberman - January 20, 2017 at 9:46 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 21, 2017 at 4:36 am
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 21, 2017 at 4:52 am
RE: Human Devolution - by downbeatplumb - January 21, 2017 at 8:46 am
RE: Human Devolution - by LastPoet - January 21, 2017 at 9:00 am
RE: Human Devolution - by downbeatplumb - January 21, 2017 at 9:04 am
RE: Human Devolution - by ignoramus - January 21, 2017 at 9:25 am
RE: Human Devolution - by GUBU - January 21, 2017 at 11:55 am
RE: Human Devolution - by downbeatplumb - January 21, 2017 at 12:06 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by vorlon13 - January 21, 2017 at 3:09 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by GUBU - January 21, 2017 at 9:20 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Cyberman - January 21, 2017 at 9:16 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Crossless1 - January 21, 2017 at 9:36 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Thumpalumpacus - January 21, 2017 at 11:40 am
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 21, 2017 at 12:43 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by brewer - January 20, 2017 at 7:44 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by GUBU - January 21, 2017 at 9:08 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Jesster - January 20, 2017 at 6:05 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Cyberman - January 20, 2017 at 6:22 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Jesster - January 20, 2017 at 6:25 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by brewer - January 20, 2017 at 8:03 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Aristocatt - January 20, 2017 at 6:30 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 20, 2017 at 6:34 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - January 20, 2017 at 7:15 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - January 20, 2017 at 7:42 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by AceBoogie - January 20, 2017 at 7:50 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by ignoramus - January 20, 2017 at 8:02 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by AceBoogie - January 20, 2017 at 11:15 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Thumpalumpacus - January 20, 2017 at 9:14 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by brewer - January 20, 2017 at 10:27 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by robvalue - January 21, 2017 at 5:22 am
RE: Human Devolution - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - January 21, 2017 at 7:30 am
RE: Human Devolution - by brewer - January 21, 2017 at 8:26 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Astreja - January 21, 2017 at 5:45 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by ignoramus - January 21, 2017 at 8:56 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Jesster - January 21, 2017 at 1:46 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by SteelCurtain - January 21, 2017 at 3:18 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by LastPoet - January 21, 2017 at 7:13 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by brewer - January 21, 2017 at 6:37 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Pulse - January 21, 2017 at 10:44 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Jesster - January 21, 2017 at 11:55 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by I_am_not_mafia - January 22, 2017 at 4:57 am
RE: Human Devolution - by GUBU - January 22, 2017 at 11:09 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Esquilax - January 23, 2017 at 9:45 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Thumpalumpacus - January 21, 2017 at 11:48 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by ignoramus - January 22, 2017 at 12:46 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Crossless1 - January 22, 2017 at 10:32 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Anomalocaris - January 22, 2017 at 10:36 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Crossless1 - January 22, 2017 at 10:38 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Anomalocaris - January 22, 2017 at 10:43 am
RE: Human Devolution - by brewer - January 22, 2017 at 8:04 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Cyberman - January 22, 2017 at 11:46 am
RE: Human Devolution - by GUBU - January 22, 2017 at 2:58 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by brewer - January 22, 2017 at 3:21 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by GUBU - January 23, 2017 at 8:27 am
RE: Human Devolution - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - January 22, 2017 at 8:22 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Thumpalumpacus - January 22, 2017 at 3:32 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Mr Greene - January 22, 2017 at 4:06 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Esquilax - January 23, 2017 at 9:43 am
RE: Human Devolution - by Whateverist - January 22, 2017 at 6:05 pm
RE: Human Devolution - by Mr Greene - January 22, 2017 at 7:02 pm



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