(August 15, 2011 at 1:09 pm)Welsh cake Wrote:Absolutely WC. We can't let the immaterialists get away with it. If the immaterial can bootstrap material universes from nothing, maintain them, listen to our utterances, intervene and perform miracles (thereby interact with matter/energy), fiddle with DNA, implant souls in our bodies, stop planets orbiting etc; there is no reason to suspect that the immaterial cannot be physically detected. Infact the xtian delusion is built entirely on the claim of witnessing a supposed supernatural intervention into the natural order. There is nowhere to hide behind here for those who assert the immaterial exists, if true the immaterial can clearly 'come out and play' in the material world and we can witness it and measure it's effects, even if we just count the reanimated zombies. The other possibility of course is that the immaterial does not exist after all and that is why we cannot see it, prove it, measure it, detect it, and that claimed miracles or ghosts or whatever are nothing but hoaxes or a highly suggestive mind being played upon, or wish thinking by credulous individuals. I wonder which one is the simpler explanation....?(August 14, 2011 at 10:38 pm)C Rod Wrote: Wait... but come to the conclusion of "crazy" and ask for physical evidence of the metaphysical.Is your god not all-powerful? Why can't he materialise and make himself physical for us to behold so there would be no atheists? Look up the logical fallacy of untestability sometime C Rod.
If you can't provide an ontological argument for the existence of God, then clearly, you have nothing.
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.