(November 20, 2017 at 2:47 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:(November 20, 2017 at 2:43 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Theist far to often confuse a magical cognition as being the argument for infinity.
It is a mistake to assume on their part that that is what modern science is arguing either way.
The issue isn't for modern scientists a cognition. Hawking said "A God is not required".
The only answer scientists at his level and that of Krauss isn't something vs nothing or nothing vs something, that part everyone is still trying to figure out. BUT what scientists at their level are saying is a magical super cognition is not required.
Me personally, the more I read science, I have no problem with infinity, or nothing. I see it as an cycle, from off to on to off to on and back and forth, much like the seasons on our planet change over and over. What I don't see as needed is a super cognition as a starting point.
Krauss has famously said "nothing is unstable'. In laypersons terms, a state of "off" cannot be forever. But neither can the state of "on".
So to me, the fluctuation between off and on is infinite. But I see no cognition being a requirement for that to happen. I only see cognition as local, small, temporary and finite. Much like acorns don't grow to become tree gods.
Up and down and on and off can happen over and over, but neither have to have a magical cause because they are just fluctuations between states.
Considering neither nothing or infinite are only asserted to be impossible by the cult of western theology . I agree
Um no, the idea of a magical forever isn't strictly a western concept.
Buddhism, Jainism and Hinduism are full of their own mythology and superstitions. It is a mistake to assume the religions of Abraham have a patent on gap answers.
Eastern Asian religions also have their ideas of pre and post life, just like the Mayans did.
I see our species history worldwide the same way. I see all religions as making the same mistake at the core. The idea that "all this" is some patent created, owned or invented by any single one. All of them claim morality, all of them see their flavors as good. Some depending on individual or sect try to water it down from the word "religion" to the word "philosophy".
I see the universe as far older. I accept it does not give on shit about me or my fellow humans. I hate that far too many, when you say that, think I am being negative. It to me, is the same as knowing a good movie ends, or a good music concert, or a sporting event.
You don't need a magic hero or a religious club to accept that this is it.
Concepts of spirit worship in Asia and even with Natives in the Americas replaces central God/god/s sure, but they still have concepts of evil spirits and worship of ancestors, and even claims of reincarnation and karma, which I find to be just as superfluous.
Again, there were no written religions of any label 200,000 years ago, much less 4 billion years ago, much less 13.8 billion years ago.
Infinite nor finite conflict to me, when you take magic and super heros out of it. I see nature and the universe as being a fluctuation between off and on. The off and on can be finite, the on can be finite, but the fluctuation between the two states can be infinite.
What is not required for either is a human like comic book super hero with magical super powers.
