The Philosophy of Mind: Zombies, "radical emergence" and evidence of non-experiential

[The Grand Nudger]

They're all predetermined by prior unconscious causes, including unconscious aspects to the brain (as the experiments showed).

This 'control' you speak of... isn't control.

Neither of us thinks that consciousness is controlling those things.  I'm only suggesting that defining the evolutionary utility of consciousness so narrowly ensures that you see it as useless, but only in that you've defined it to be so.

What decision making? Do you mean the illusion of decision making? That's something that really is an illusion.

Then it's not a valid criteria for judging the evolutionary utility of anything.  

It doesn't seem to play ANY role on our actual behavior... as the experiments show.

It would be interesting to see what those experiments are.  

Do I just need to repeat what I already said? I just said it's a crap analogy because scientific experiments don't show that flight or wings have no benefit, and I've said repeatedly that there's scientific experiments that show that consciousness has no benefit, and that's why your analogy is crap. And your response is to say that it's special pleading on my part when I literally just showed you why it isn't?

I don't think that they show that consciousness has no benefit, either.  They sometimes call into question benefits we assumed of consciousness....but that's not all that surprising, is it?  We thought there was a little man in there yanking levers, lol.  That's not how it works..or the benefit it provides. That, however, does not mean it utterly lacks any evolutionary utility.

You're stupid

Thanks, I always wondered but it's good to have confirmation. 

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Here, try this question.  If you had to point to a single thing that, in your opinion (or..you know stats or whatevs) is the single greatest thing as far as preserving or advantaging human genetics..what would it be?

I'll get you started off, no wrong answers. Let's say...opposable thumbs, or an upright stance. Perhaps the creation of art and the communication of personal experience in language. Or, maybe, sanitation....vaccination, or roads.

Things like that.