(September 10, 2018 at 12:57 pm)Khemikal Wrote:(September 10, 2018 at 11:47 am)Drich Wrote:
here's the thing sport.. CFC... are heavier than air, much. In Fact if there is a leak in a container it can stay indefinitely in an open air container if the material is not blown out or the container not tipped over.
Ozone... is 15 to 30Km high
it was said when we first were made to take our freon tests it would take 75 years to drop the levels low enough to effect the ozone layer. why? because it was supposedly the chlorine which broke apart from the molecule chain which caused atmospheric saturation takes a very long time to decay in the open air. so we should technically be getting worse/hole bigger for the next 50 years.
yet the hole is gone.
Which makes some in 'science' say we have no idea why the hole is or as there and why it is seal. but if the hole is seal then there is no way for the CFC's to split if less time cause the reduced saturation let alone regeneration of the O3 layer. This is not chemically possible.
A more sensible theory has to do with solar winds.. when the sun's output is very high it bombards the earth with actual particles of solar energy which could indeed break down O3 into O2 or just O (o3 being ozone into just oxygen) but you can't tax the sun and duponte (the makers of cfc refrigerant) isn't gong to pay the government billions to make people buy the 'new stuff' because the cfc they were making patent ran out...
Oh, guess what else! the Chfc/HFC (the stuff we converted to in the 90s to save us from the CFC of the 60 70 and 80) you know the stuff we used to replaced the cfc that ate a hole in the ozone???, That 'new stuff of the 1990s patents are running out, and guess what is next on the government chopping block for bad refrigerants! YES the SAME Chfc and HFC's that saved us from the ozone hole, are now global warming/climate change contributors so we have to stop using them Just as Duponts patents and licenses agreements are expiring! and guess who use has a newer replacement?!?! That right DUPONTE!!!! Dupont's new replacement which will be good for 20+ years until those patent run out are here to save us from our own..... It just cost 10x as much!!! plus the pressures are crazy/more repair bills and home a/c system change out time cut in 1/2!! plus it is crazy toxic and some said highly flammable as it contains a high amount of natural gas.
Right, right, the universe itself is engaged in a massive conspiracy to make you look like a flaming idiot so that duponte can grind out more coin...and that's why we should do nothing in the face of this new challenge, which is fake news.
how about it is not chemically possible for the cfc's to do the damage claimed by the montreal protcol of 1987?
https://www.nature.com/news/2007/070924/...9382a.html
Motives aside the reason for the bann is bull shit. now fill in the blanks any way you like. Just know... the "dates" all of this stuff went down coincides with duponte production runs.
https://eng.ucmerced.edu/people/awesterl...nts/DuPont
These people seem to think duponte (the people who called for the bann who FUNDED the research into the hole/Which btw is like big tobacco paying for doctor endorsements) made out like a bandit by providing a crisis that threaten modern life and provided a solution that only cost 10 times more (.98 cents a lb verse 10 to 14 dollars a lb) and now are doing the very same thing just when their patents run out again, and again providing a solution which is 10 times more money.
But your right 'science is pure' as the snow it would never take money and "find" one way or another anything the funders wanted found... Just a coincidence that an extinction level problem forced people to pay 10times what they already pay for basically the same product (meaning end net result.)
Now Note to Jorge.. I started with my interpretation of some tertiary stuff. pretty low grade as facts are concerned.. most of it was popular belief. then he challenged so I got some primary strong secondary source material. Now intellectually his choice is to find primary stronger/more number secondary material to unseat what My guys just said... not more of the same stuff my sources invalidated, but material that addresses what my guys say.
Got a feeling he will go back to his usual MO and that is attack me my understanding of the industry I've worked in for over 25 years and or make some quip about my source material..
Again, what would you do here. how do I set this moron straight? he doesn't want a world view any bigger than the one he keeps under his hat. He clearly wants to be seen as a 'thinker' just doesn't want to give anything any thought.. he just wants to think about how to lock in what he already thinks he knows. or do I let it go as with you and have him harp on the preceived win... just because I did not beat him with the fact till he broke down and cried? where is the middle ground here? You guys do not seem to understand how to argue facts, you argue passions, you almost do not care what the facts are you just argue alongworld view lines.
