Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: June 6, 2024, 8:21 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins)
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins)
(August 5, 2019 at 9:57 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:
(August 5, 2019 at 8:57 pm)Grandizer Wrote: I don't see the problem personally. Back and forth alternating changes of varying degrees between two organs or two species work just as fine as long as this still allows for the organism(s) to be well adapted to the surrounding environment, and to survive and produce offspring that will inherit the combination and via time and chance have more refined combinations through successive generations.

My issue with back an forth alternating between changes, is that they seem to create holes where selection can't occur. For that to make sense we have to agree that selection can't work "off-line," that an adaptation has to have an effect on the world, and be affected by it, in order for selection have any preference for one variation over another and slowly shape it. 

In other words, and to move beyond the detection of direction. If cones spontaneously evolve from rods, before theres a system able to use them to perceive color, cones are basically off-line structures. They can't be selected for or against, when it comes to color detection, because there's nothing to have an effect on when it comes to color detection. 

So, it seems to me that for there to be a back-and-forth, without causing an adaptation to go off-line, is for there to be some kind of scaffolding in place than can maintain it or keep it in the game until the rest of the system can catch up.

I'll explain better later, cause I'm out of time, but hopefully you get the point I'm trying to make.

It seems to me like you're not taking into account that the eye or cone or rod or whatever is not existing in isolation from the whole organism itself. I'm not going to pretend I know all the specifics but theoretically, some traits may not be favorable for selection at all on their own, but when they're part of an organism that nevertheless has been enhanced in some other way in terms of adaptability, then the traits will carry over and be refined over time and successive generations. This is oversimplifying things but that's the gist of how this sometimes works.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins) - by Cod - August 5, 2019 at 5:44 pm
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins) - by Grandizer - August 5, 2019 at 10:04 pm
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins) - by Sal - August 6, 2019 at 12:58 pm
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins) - by GUBU - August 17, 2019 at 1:29 pm
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins) - by GUBU - August 19, 2019 at 3:06 pm
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins) - by GUBU - August 18, 2019 at 12:52 pm
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins) - by chimp3 - August 25, 2019 at 11:49 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Chemical evolution of amino acids and proteins ? Impossible !! Otangelo 56 9382 January 10, 2020 at 2:59 pm
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  Richard Dawkins claims we should eat lab-grown human meat Alexmahone 83 11332 March 18, 2018 at 6:47 pm
Last Post: vorlon13
  Theory of Evolution, Atheism, and Homophobia. RayOfLight 31 5156 October 25, 2017 at 9:24 am
Last Post: Brian37
  Evolution and the Texas Sharp Shooter Fallacy Clueless Morgan 12 2341 July 9, 2015 at 10:17 am
Last Post: Clueless Morgan
  生物学101:Genetics and Evolution. Duke Guilmon 2 2160 March 14, 2015 at 12:32 pm
Last Post: Dystopia
  Death and Evolution Exian 4 1884 November 2, 2014 at 11:45 am
Last Post: abaris
  Myths and misconceptions about evolution - Alex Gendler Gooders1002 2 2056 July 8, 2013 at 11:59 am
Last Post: Tonus
  Intelligent design type evolution vs naturalism type evolution. Mystic 59 31015 April 6, 2013 at 5:12 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article Jeffonthenet 99 56667 September 4, 2012 at 11:50 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  difference between Micro and macro evolution Gooders1002 21 9100 May 19, 2012 at 12:27 am
Last Post: Polaris



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)