(December 18, 2019 at 7:16 pm)maxolla Wrote:(December 18, 2019 at 6:15 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: I never said you had a misunderstanding. I was just trying to clarify your position.
So, if you interpret the Bible one way, and other theists interpret it another (over 30K Christian sects, and counting...), how do you know yours is the correct interpretation, and others that interpreted differently, got it wrong?
It the Bible is not infallible, then how do you know any of it is correct? How do you know you understand the correct parts, and other misunderstand them?
In short. We as human beings see the world in different ways. We interpret what we perceive in varied ways and even our language is imperfect in totally accurate communication. I would say that Biblical text just as any writing can be interpreted along many different lines of thought. If we both read the same novel you may come up with a very different interpretation of the text than I would based on your experience and the fact that all human being are unique from one another.
I except that I am wrong and have misunderstandings. That’s why I am interested in learning from other peoples perspectives when they will allow understanding. I would not say that I am typical in theist circles. It's prefer to understand than be understood. This is why I don’t particularly care whether or not my conclusions are perceived as right I would prefer to be right.
Lastly, Ipse dixit doesn’t cut it. Just because most of the Christian world believes in hell, I have yet to have someone support is properly with scriptural proof.
You would say the same to me regarding the existence of God. However, I’m not trying to prove his existence to you. I’m here to know more about your why.
The part I bolded is what is actually important to me in these types of discussions, though.
One of my main motivations in life, is to have as many true beliefs as possible, and eliminate as many false beliefs as possible. I want my internal model of the world to map as closely as possible to the actual world.
The primary reasons why I have these discussions, is for people that have different beliefs than I have, to tell me what they are, and most importantly, tell me WHY they believe them. The why is actually the important part.
If theists god beliefs are supported with: demonstrable and falsifiable evidence, and valid and sound logic, then I want to know about it. Without meeting the above criteria, what should be my epistemological warrant to believe theist's claims are true?
I am open to be convinced that a god exists, as long as theists are able to meet their burden of proof. Fallacious arguments, like: teleological, Kalam cosmological, ontological, and transcendental arguments, will not cut it. Appeals to old texts, personal feelings of god encounters, 'miracle' healings, etc, etc, are even worse evidence.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.