RE: evolution
March 14, 2022 at 7:13 pm
(This post was last modified: March 14, 2022 at 7:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Sure, I can go with that too? What we're talking about when we talk about our consciousness is both more than and different from what a minimally self aware machine is doing. It still remains the case that even a minimal self awareness -a machines minimal self awareness- has quantifiable advantages.
That we have self awareness -because- it's useful is a hypothesis.
That self awareness -is- useful is, as I've repeatedly stressed, not.
Just as the idea that we've evolved for selective advantage is a hypothesis. An extremely successful one, but still.
That we -have evolved - is not.
Theories and facts of evolution, theories and facts of self awareness. This should be a relatively uncontentious issue. I strongly suspect that we're pushing back as a prelude to foreclosing on an argument that will never come. The second items being facts does not, for example, mean that the first items are thus established as facts. That self awareness can be shown to be advantageous does not prove the theory of evolution to be a fact. It does not prove that control based theories are a fact. It does not establish as a fact that any given claimed ability of human consciousness is in set A.
Is there any particular reason that you think being able to attend to attention, clearly advantageous anytime and anywhere we care to look, is -not- advantageous to human reproduction and survival? How about possessing a self image? Do you think it might be possible or useful for a human being to be able to attend to the details of it's self image..and, where applicable, repair or improve our physical bodies in order to attract a mate? Is this not an ability A?
That we have self awareness -because- it's useful is a hypothesis.
That self awareness -is- useful is, as I've repeatedly stressed, not.
Just as the idea that we've evolved for selective advantage is a hypothesis. An extremely successful one, but still.
That we -have evolved - is not.
Theories and facts of evolution, theories and facts of self awareness. This should be a relatively uncontentious issue. I strongly suspect that we're pushing back as a prelude to foreclosing on an argument that will never come. The second items being facts does not, for example, mean that the first items are thus established as facts. That self awareness can be shown to be advantageous does not prove the theory of evolution to be a fact. It does not prove that control based theories are a fact. It does not establish as a fact that any given claimed ability of human consciousness is in set A.
Is there any particular reason that you think being able to attend to attention, clearly advantageous anytime and anywhere we care to look, is -not- advantageous to human reproduction and survival? How about possessing a self image? Do you think it might be possible or useful for a human being to be able to attend to the details of it's self image..and, where applicable, repair or improve our physical bodies in order to attract a mate? Is this not an ability A?
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