(February 22, 2012 at 3:51 pm)Carnavon Wrote: I trust in Jesus Christ and his work on the cross – as an atonement for sin.
If that's true, then why appeal to the words of Paul or others?
Why not go with things that were attributed direct to Jesus, or to the authors of the Gospels who claim to be quoting him directly all the time?
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
Here John is making a pretty straight-forward claim. If you are to believe that you can trust John to speak for God and that Jesus was "The Word Made Flesh", then why should you doubt the words of John or go off using the words of Paul or others to contradict these words?
(February 22, 2012 at 3:51 pm)Carnavon Wrote: Jesus' claims are either that of an outright liar, a lunatic or he was speaking the truth (I think it was CS Lewis that said that). Historical facts contradict that he was either of the first two mentioned.
The trustworthiness of the Bible (as far as can be verified) add to my confidence
Yes, you're right it was CS Lewis who said that, but CS Lewis assumes that the New Testament represents the word of Jesus verbatim. There's no reason to assume that unless you have already accepted that these rumors represent the undeniable "word of God". And if you have already done that then there's nothing more to consider.
In fact, if you take CS Lewis' position that you need to 'justify' every word of the Bible verbatim, then you're stuck with having no choice to believe that it's all the sacred word of God. Because in these tales they claim that God himself spoke to the people from a cloud stating that Jesus is his son and that we should hear him.
Matt.17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mark.9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Luke.9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
If you believe that, then it's a done deal. There's nothing more to question.
On the other hand if you believe, like me, that these rumors are most likely fibs made up in an attempt to give these absurd rumors clout, then you should simultaneously recognize that this is indeed a huge red flag that clearly demonstrates that nothing these rumors claim should be taken seriously or trusted to be genuine.
I make no secret about the fact that I completely dismiss the entire Hebrew rumors as nothing more than extremely biased superstitions.
In fact, just look around you today. Look at how many people argue and try to support these stupid rumors when in fact, they weren't there and could have absolutely no knowledge of whether any of this stuff ever took place.
Apparently it's human nature to support fibs and rumors that they like.
Why should we believe that the authors of these ancient fables were any different?
In fact, most scholars recognize that Matthew and Luke were both just retelling Mark's fables.
So basically these gospels are just one rumor being retold by different authors. None of them saw the events that they are reporting. It's all just hearsay rumors being passed along from one idiot to another.
Christian - A moron who believes that an all-benevolent God can simultaneously be a hateful jealous male-chauvinistic pig.
Wiccan - The epitome of cerebral evolution having mastered the magical powers of the universe and is in eternal harmony with the mind of God.
Atheist - An ill-defined term that means something different to everyone who uses it.
~~~~~
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Clearly Jesus (a fictitious character or otherwise) will forgive people if they merely know not what they do
For the Bible Tells us so!
Wiccan - The epitome of cerebral evolution having mastered the magical powers of the universe and is in eternal harmony with the mind of God.
Atheist - An ill-defined term that means something different to everyone who uses it.
~~~~~
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Clearly Jesus (a fictitious character or otherwise) will forgive people if they merely know not what they do
For the Bible Tells us so!