(March 11, 2012 at 12:52 pm)whateverist Wrote:(March 11, 2012 at 12:13 pm)NoMoreFaith Wrote: Just to offer a thought experiment. When do you obtain free will over the atoms in your body? Between your conception and adulthood there is a point where there is no free will and *ping* free will. The nature of the discussion is such that there is no grey area between free will, and the lack of it.
In short, at what did your decision-making process inject itself in the middle of natural, causal interactions that were taking place before you were born? To me, the answer is never. Nothing changed in the state of the universe. You are in control of exactly the same amount of control you had over the universe you had before you were born.
I was reading recently, sorry but I don't have the source, that what we think of as free will doesn't show up until about the age of three. Just as the brain takes some time to put the world together cognitively from the input of vision so, apparently, it takes us a while to realize we have choices to make that require deliberation. So I suspect, empirically at least, there very much is some grey area between free will and its lack.
So what is free will understood in the mundane empirical sense? I suspect it is merely the capacity to put the brakes on responses in order to consider the how new knowledge of the consequences stand to change the evaluation of what we most want. We want to go grab a handful of that cake in the refrigerator but we don't want to piss off mommy or spend the rest of the day in our room away from everyone else. There is a point at which we are unaware of consequences but we are animals that are capable of learning from our experience. Admittedly we still ultimately act to serve wants we never consciously chose, but our conscious involvement in the intake of new knowledge of consequences gives rise to 'free will'. Not philosophy textbook 'free will', just the garden variety described by child development.
If I were to subscribe to that view (which I clearly don't), I would expect it to correlate more heavily with having a defined sense of self rather than putting the world together cognitively.
I don't really see how the ability to put brakes on affects having a free will. Your actions, and reasoning are still a long line of causal events. In order for free will to be true and total, then there needs to be uncaused cognition.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
