[quote='padraic' pid='252924' dateline='1331549067']
Well not to me, I find Islam's attitude to the Jews inconsistent and confusing. I refer to "the people of The Book" . The treatment of Jews by Muslims has varied enormously throughout history. From a far greater tolerance in any Christian society to open hatred and persecution.
Today's mutual hatred and violence between some Jews and Muslims bemuses and saddens me: They have far more in common than not: Each group worships the same god,each traces its origin to the prophet Abraham. Originally both were members of the same language group; both were Semites.I have never been convinced that the current hostilities [at least] have anything to with religion. They are about power and territory,with each side claiming non existent rights and moral high ground.
[quote]People of the Book (Arabic: أهل الكتاب ′Ahl al-Kitāb) is a term used to designate non-Muslim adherents to faiths which have a revealed scripture[1] called, in Arabic, Ahl-Al-Kitab (Arabic: الكتاب "the people of the Book" or "people of the Scripture"). The three types of adherents to faiths that the Qur'an mentions as people of the book are the Jews, Sabians and Christians[/quote]
Although they have to pay the Jizyah, a Tax imposed on the "People of the book", and they can't preach in public... I agree treatment of Jews within the muslim society was a lot better than in Europe when they were in their middle ages... And yes i know that they are closely related in all ways... actually Historians consider them ancient Babylonians that broke out of their society.
And for the surahs you selected all of them were said or "revealed" before the Jews in al-Madina denied Prophet Mohammed's prophecy... Mohammed tried to convince the Jews at Al-Median to convert to Islam, hell he even faced the Temple of Solomon when praying just to get their sympathy and legitimize his prophecy... although they denied him Mohammed was a patient man he waited for a year and a half before he decided to turn against them... first by changing the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to the Kaaba in Mecca.
After that came the Jewish extermination campaign ...It began with the expulsion of Banu-Qaynuqa, then the massacre of Ban-Quraiza, then finally the expulsion of Banu-Nadir(though the prophet intended to massacre them in the same way as Banu-Quraiza...fortunately Abdullah bin-Ubaiy convinced him otherwise) .
Surah 22(Alhajj) is the only surah that is revealed after the hostilities though it doesn't give anyone neutral position, polytheists were not allowed to exist in an Islamic society(they either convert to Islam or die) ... It just says that everyone will be judged by God.
In the prophet's last years he actually accused the Jews of saying that Ezra is the son of God:
The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah ." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded? (Quraan 9:30)
...needles to say, until this day there is no evidence that any Jew in any point of time said anything like that.
Now i'm facing you with facts ... i live in an Islamic society... My grandfather used to describe how the alley boys used to beat up a Jewish boy just because he is Jewish(that was before Palestinian-Israeli conflict) ... i used to live as a shiite in a predominantly sunni society and i know how discrimination and stereotyping works here, not just social wise, but also politically.
Now i think that these facts disapprove your idea of Muslims singing "Kumbaa Yaa" with the Jews.
I lived the Islamic way of life, if you are just going to look at it from the outside and rant about it, rant all you want... because i'll always be one step ahead of you.
Well not to me, I find Islam's attitude to the Jews inconsistent and confusing. I refer to "the people of The Book" . The treatment of Jews by Muslims has varied enormously throughout history. From a far greater tolerance in any Christian society to open hatred and persecution.
Today's mutual hatred and violence between some Jews and Muslims bemuses and saddens me: They have far more in common than not: Each group worships the same god,each traces its origin to the prophet Abraham. Originally both were members of the same language group; both were Semites.I have never been convinced that the current hostilities [at least] have anything to with religion. They are about power and territory,with each side claiming non existent rights and moral high ground.
[quote]People of the Book (Arabic: أهل الكتاب ′Ahl al-Kitāb) is a term used to designate non-Muslim adherents to faiths which have a revealed scripture[1] called, in Arabic, Ahl-Al-Kitab (Arabic: الكتاب "the people of the Book" or "people of the Scripture"). The three types of adherents to faiths that the Qur'an mentions as people of the book are the Jews, Sabians and Christians[/quote]
Although they have to pay the Jizyah, a Tax imposed on the "People of the book", and they can't preach in public... I agree treatment of Jews within the muslim society was a lot better than in Europe when they were in their middle ages... And yes i know that they are closely related in all ways... actually Historians consider them ancient Babylonians that broke out of their society.
And for the surahs you selected all of them were said or "revealed" before the Jews in al-Madina denied Prophet Mohammed's prophecy... Mohammed tried to convince the Jews at Al-Median to convert to Islam, hell he even faced the Temple of Solomon when praying just to get their sympathy and legitimize his prophecy... although they denied him Mohammed was a patient man he waited for a year and a half before he decided to turn against them... first by changing the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to the Kaaba in Mecca.
After that came the Jewish extermination campaign ...It began with the expulsion of Banu-Qaynuqa, then the massacre of Ban-Quraiza, then finally the expulsion of Banu-Nadir(though the prophet intended to massacre them in the same way as Banu-Quraiza...fortunately Abdullah bin-Ubaiy convinced him otherwise) .
Surah 22(Alhajj) is the only surah that is revealed after the hostilities though it doesn't give anyone neutral position, polytheists were not allowed to exist in an Islamic society(they either convert to Islam or die) ... It just says that everyone will be judged by God.
In the prophet's last years he actually accused the Jews of saying that Ezra is the son of God:
The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah ." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded? (Quraan 9:30)
...needles to say, until this day there is no evidence that any Jew in any point of time said anything like that.
Now i'm facing you with facts ... i live in an Islamic society... My grandfather used to describe how the alley boys used to beat up a Jewish boy just because he is Jewish(that was before Palestinian-Israeli conflict) ... i used to live as a shiite in a predominantly sunni society and i know how discrimination and stereotyping works here, not just social wise, but also politically.
Now i think that these facts disapprove your idea of Muslims singing "Kumbaa Yaa" with the Jews.
I lived the Islamic way of life, if you are just going to look at it from the outside and rant about it, rant all you want... because i'll always be one step ahead of you.
