RE: Do you believe in free will?
March 27, 2012 at 6:08 am
(This post was last modified: March 27, 2012 at 6:11 am by genkaus.)
(March 27, 2012 at 3:45 am)tackattack Wrote: 1- Perception is just the product of perceiving. That typically comes from sensory input, but if our agent has a means to perceive rather than just cogitate than we can recognize or understand why we are and who we are. We can intuit or reason then why we are deciding. That gives us conscious choice. If the agent can exist without material means than it is independent of the material and that would seperate from physical reality correct?
The "if" being what precludes the possibility. Both the actions of perception and cogitation require material reality to occur. So, your argument prior to the if tells you why that "if" is not true.
(March 27, 2012 at 3:45 am)tackattack Wrote: 3- So what you're saying here is he still can't change who he is, even though he knows who he now perceives himself to be is not truly himself?
You are not making much sense here. He truly is as he perceives himself. Whether he wants to remain so or not and the actionable change resulting from the motivation is irrelevant.
(March 27, 2012 at 3:45 am)tackattack Wrote: J2-why can't it be both?
Because both would entail a necessary contradiction
(March 27, 2012 at 3:45 am)tackattack Wrote: Can we not think back to things that were with memory? It's not the reality now, but it's sequential and out of temporal current reality.
No, the memory itself is a part of current temporal reality. The content of the memory is a reference to reality - not reality.
(March 27, 2012 at 3:45 am)tackattack Wrote: We don't always necessarily feel the way we felt as the observer back then, despite potential ghost sensory inputs giving us a projection. I believe thoughts are categorical not analogical. Let me ask you this: Can you perceive something in any way other than the way you typically expect to perceive it?
My expectation is to perceive it as it is - so no, I cannot perceive it any other way. That says nothing about the projection.
(March 27, 2012 at 3:45 am)tackattack Wrote: J3- How is there a primacy issue when I state reality can be comprised of phenomena that seem more real than noumena only because of their tangibility. I'm not saying either have the ability to divorce themselves completely from the causal chain, but in fact change its course. This perception of noumena and phenomena with introspection and reasoning , filtered through identity, are what encompasses free- will to me.
That is where you are wrong. I asked you for the justification of noumena. You have no faculty to perceive it.
(March 27, 2012 at 3:45 am)tackattack Wrote: 4- If you can't be anything other than who you are (law of identity) can you be more than more than one you?
No.
(March 27, 2012 at 3:45 am)tackattack Wrote: I'm fairly certain that there are some multiple personalities I'd like to introduce to you. If each has their own identity and are unaware of the others the whole would be schizophrenic but the parts break the law of identity.
Don't confuse personality with identity. Multiple personalities all would be subsets of the same identity,
(March 27, 2012 at 5:03 am)tackattack Wrote: I do have a question for you genkaus. If will is completely under coersion at all times, and the agent is part of the coersion, wouldn't he be affecting the direction of the will? Wouldn't that indicate that will, while influenced by multiple known and unknown influences, if incluenced by the desires of the agent would be under a degree of partial control of the agent?
I think your question is better directed at NoMoreFaith. It is not my position that an agent's will is under coercion all the time and it is my position that the agent being a part of the cause precludes coercion.