(May 2, 2012 at 1:28 am)Engel Wrote:(May 2, 2012 at 1:15 am)Godschild Wrote: I did not say that, sorry should have said more, moreI am fairly certain that the Spanish Inquisition, the Pogroms against Jews in the Russian Empire, the Holocaust, Segregation and slavery in the United States, South Africa, and many others, as well as the fascist governments of Francisco Franco, Mussolini, and yes, even Adolf Hitler, were organized by men who claimed church membership and claimed god and religion, that is to say the Christian god, as one of their motives. This is in addition to the Crusades and the persecution of intellectuals and other threats to the Church in Europe for the better part of 1000 years. Doesn't matter if they were "biblical" or not. They claimed Christianity as their faith and motives.. What I meant was that I do not take things as the truth unless proof is given or I look into it myself. If you want to debate secular vs christian atrocities go to it, one thing you will have to prove since your making the claim, that the atrocities were ordained by a christian, that is to say the Biblical definition of a christian.
If you're going to blame Christianity then you have to prove these people were biblical Christians. Just a side note here, slavery was in effect long before Christianity. Many Christians are being killed today for spreading the Gospel of Christ. Franco, Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin were not Christians, by the Biblical definition. Christians, Atheist and many others were involved in slavery and the slave trade. Does matter and here's why, I could go around killing many many people and say when I was caught, that I did it because I'm an atheist, and believe my moral standard is as good as anyone else's standard, now is that fair for me to justify why I killed all those people, by claiming to be an atheist. I would think not. Prove then that all these people you believe to be christian are, by the Biblical standard.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.