RE: The Stage is Yours.
July 13, 2012 at 6:08 am
(This post was last modified: July 13, 2012 at 6:11 am by Rayaan.)
(July 12, 2012 at 6:30 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Ok from this I am taking it that the Quran teaches that Allah is the author of evil:
The Quran calls Allah scheming (makr). S. 3:54; cf. 8:30 That is: deceptive
Verily, the hypocrites seek to deceive Allah, but it is He Who deceives them. And when they stand up for As-Salat (the prayer), they stand with laziness and to be seen of men, and they do not remember Allah but little. S. 4:142 Hilali-Khan
And (the unbelievers) schemed and planned, and Allah schemed also, and the best of schemers is Allah. S. 3:54
[snip]
This perspective on the Quran is endorsed by Muslim theologians. It isn't possible to attribute the Christian God as deceptive.
There may be more. Stay tuned.
I've already heard that one before and the answer to that is pretty simple. Thanks for giving me an easy one.
First of all, those verses that you quoted about Allah scheming are amongst the revelations that were given to Muhammad when Allah was instructing him in the manners of planning and engaging in military actions. In those verses, Allah basically affirms that He will suffice, aid, support, and help the believers against the evil plans of their enemies and He will help them even if their enemies are more numerous and have greater supplies. All the Quranic verses that you quoted have a historical background in them just like many other verses. There is more about the period of revelation, the historical background, the theme and purpose, and the interconnections between them for all the chapters of the Quran at the link below:
Maududi's Chapter Introductions to the Quran
Coming to the meaning of the verses, the words "khayru al-makireena" in verse 3:54 means that Allah is the "best of planners" (khayru = best of; al-makireena = the ones who plan secretly or in a subtle manner). It can also be translated as "best of schemers" as it appears in many translations of the Quran. So, I will now post both the transliteration and the translation of verse 3:54 which talks about Allah's scheming against certain non-believers along with notes to explain what they mean. I have used different colors in the transliteration and the translation just to indicate the corresponding meanings.
Transliteration:
"Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru almakireena." (3:54)
Translation:
"And they [the unbelievers] planned secretly, and Allah planned secretly also, and Allah is the best of planners." (3:54)
Both transliteration and translation with notes:
That explained, I have never come across a single verse in the Quran that says that Allah is a deceiver or that He is the best of deceivers.
The important thing is that there is a difference between scheming/planning vs. deceiving. Scheming means a systematic plan of action while deceiving involves lying or trickery. The Quran uses the former, which is scheming (or planning), and if you read about the background of these verses, you will find that Allah was scheming against certain tribes and leaders of Mecca who planned to assassinate the Prophet and his followers in order to stop the spread of Islam.
There is indeed a verse that says that Allah deceived a certain group of people, and it is in the verse which says, "Indeed, the hypocrites seek to deceive Allah, but it is He Who deceives them. And when they stand up for the prayer (As-Salaat), they stand with laziness and to be seen by men, and they do not remember Allah, except a little" (4:142) which you quoted above. The word used for "decieve" in this particular verse is "yukhadiAAoona." The root is KH-D-Ain and it means revealing something and concealing another or doing something tricky for an effect of getting an advantage of someone. So, this word in the Quran can be conceptually taken to cover tricking and/or misleading someone or hiding some important issues.
However, the message of that verse does not mean that Allah is a "deceiver." What it simply means is that if one wants to play tricky games with Allah, then Allah is on top of the game and He causes their own deceptions to backfire on themselves. He will derail their plans and turn them against themselves.
As for all the verses about Allah scheming ("makara"), which I explained earlier, again, they are in the context of those who tried to assassinate one of Allah's prophets, in this case the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). During that time, many of the Arab pagans, Christians, Romans, Jews, and many others tried to plot against Muhammad to kill him and to bring an end to Islam. They planned and schemed as much as possible to complete their mission of assassinating the Prophet. However, as mentioned in the verses that you quoted, Allah was scheming against them also - and He is the best of schemers (khayru almakireena) - and thus all their plans and tricks were a failure no matter how much they tried. Allah has planned against their plans and He has completely derailed them every single time in order to save His last messenger. This left all the human schemers confused and deceived.
Now, this is what all of the above boils down to:
Allah does scheme and deceive, but he does that for a good reason and He does that only when others are scheming against Him (indirectly), such as by trying to harm Muslims or trying to kill the Prophet. Allah schemed to derail their evil plans and to protect His messenger from danger. In other words, Allah was helping out his Prophet and the good people by getting one over the bad guys who were persistently trying to kill the Prophet. So, I don't see any evil in that kind of scheming because Allah was doing that for a good reason.
All those verses simply mean that Allah is best at planning in secret and at outmaneuvering anyone who schemes against Him and His messengers. Nothing evil about that, IMO.
If you have more stuff like that, then don't hesitate to post them. Just bring 'em to me.
I'll pick up on your other comments at a later post or maybe I will continue from here depending on your responses that proceed after this. There's no hurry for me.Also, any of you guys reading this thread can ask me questions and/or post your arguments if you want to. This discussion doesn't have to be just between me and fr0d0.
