Better reasons to quit Christianity

[spockrates]

Well, I suppose it would save me a lot of time if I could determine that it is impossible for any being to be perfectly and completely powerful, and at the same time perfectly and completely loving, and at the same time perfectly and completely wise. That feat would fell a full house of God concepts! Please explain how you know these three attributes to be incompatible. Or would you like to talk with me about it in the other discussion thread?

No, that's fine, we can discuss here.

I think the 3 omnis are incompatible with what the Bible says. An all knowing god would be able to create man in a way that wouldn't have sinned. If he knew this was going to happen then he's not all loving because he didn't care enough to avoid it. Alternatively, he did care and is all knowing but just not all powerful and couldn't create us how he wanted to. This notion that we weren't supposed to have fallen is justified by Jesus himself. God clearly wanted us to be back up to 'his level' hence why Jesus supposedly died for our sins.

May I ask, what do you think God's attributes are, based on the Bible? For example, Drich has shown me that his love is not unconditional but actually conditional (John 3:16). To me, that's saying the god of the Bible is actually benevolent and not omnibenevolent. What do you think about the 3 omnis? Are the other two also misrepresented according to the Bible?

I do appreciate your reply. I think I have a tedious way of asking simple questions that sometimes turns people off. I do find your answer fascinating and want to hear more.

I think you are correct in saying that all of the attributes of the God portrayed in the Bible fall under one of these three categories that you mention. The interesting thing to me is that the Christians often say the greatest of all is love, so they believe that omnibenevolence is the greatest attribute of God. Solomon, however states in Proverbs that nothing one desires is greater than wisdom, which would mean omniscience is greater still. I'm open to discussing this with you if you like.



In answer to your question, I'd say I'm not convinced, yet. I'm unsure of the premise that it is possible for God to create a person in such a way that she would never choose what is morally wrong. It's actually an ancient question answered by an early Christian by the name of Iraenius.. His answer to the question went something like this:

1. God's purpose is that we will love one another and love him

2. Love requires freedom to freely choose to love or not love

3. If God made us so we were incapable of choosing to hate, we would be incapable of freely choosing to love or not love

4. To prevent us from freely choosing to love would be unloving and unwise

5. If God were unloving, he would not be omnibenevolent, and if he were unwise, he would not be omniscient

6. If God were not omnibenevolent, nor omniscient, he would cease to be God

7. It is impossible for God to cease to be who he is

Therefore,

A. God cannot possibly still be God and at the same time, make us incapable of doing what is morally wrong

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaean_theodicy


I'm thinking Iraenius is right. Making us like puppets on strings, or robots incapable of choice would make not only make hate impossible; it would also make love impossible. Can an existence void of love be the most perfect God could possibly create?