Better reasons to quit Christianity

[The Grand Nudger]

:BOUNCE-BALL:

Can I expect an answer to my original question anytime soon, on free will of individuals?

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Stop the presses!


I didn't notice that you did answer this. Sorry I missed it.

Just knowing beforehand doesn't cause this to happen, you're exactly right. But If you created a world knowing beforehand that Bill Gates would make billions and setting it in motion to achieve that outcome, (rather than another outcome that could arise from the infinite other universes God was capable of creating) then I would say that Bill Gate's free will is nothing but an illusion in that world. He might think he is choosing to do things, but the choices were already made when God created the universe in which he now exists.

Yes. Perhaps I could make a world where every door to Bill's success was unlocked, but wouldn't the choice would still be Bill's to open the doors? Here is an example: I have a son who is brilliant. My wife is a high school teacher and has seen his aptitude scores and they are off the charts. He has everything going for him, but now, as a high school graduate, he is working at a food store. We offered to pay his way to college, and he refused. Why? He chose drugs and decided he didn't want to try to do anything more with his life that bag groceries and collect shopping carts. With his intelligence, he really has an advantage over others, but he chose to under achieve. No matter how many doors have been unlocked for him, he has chosen not to go through them.

Now you might say God chose to make Bill Gates a success, and chose to make my son less of a success, but I think a more reasonable explanation is that they both made the choices themselves--one to take advantage of his advantages, and one to not take advantage of his advantages.

No, not if you invoke precongnition. Precognitions describes a state from the observers end, it's mirror image is predestination from the observed's end. It doesn't even matter if the precognitive observer chose the initial states, or any of the given outcomes. A precognitive human being with no other abilities whatsoever would completely erode the notion of free will, let alone a precognitive god with a whole host of other abilities and stated plans.

Your son sounds like a brilliant grocery bagger, no shame in that, someone has to bag groceries. Why did he refuse your offer to pay for college btw (if you don't mind my asking)?

(alot of people score off the charts and nevertheless don't end up being doctors btw, I dig holes and change shitty diapers.......I'm also very frequently under the influence..lol)