Better reasons to quit Christianity

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't see a problem given the proposed definitions of time and omniscience.

Time = that which is impossible to become static in the future

Omniscient = knowing all of the possible outcomes of the future and what actions would have to be taken to make the impossible, possible and make the possible, impossible.

You mean "given my bare assertions I don't see the problem".

Your definition of time btw....utter garbage. Why is it that apologetics always hinges on creating a favorable (and often completely vapid) definition of a word to argue from? Amusingly, invoking a "changing timeline" and an omniscience that can see all these rivers of time still does not eliminate the problem. From the perspective of each individual timeline -once we have invoked precognition of the timelines- they are all as predetermined (you know...not static) as the monolithic and inevitable timeline we percieve. Troubling, isn't it? You seem to feel that by altering the vantage point of your precognitive observer you can avoid the problem posed by precognition. You cannot. As I have repeatedly explained, it isn't the observer, it isn't the observers vantage point, it is the very possibility of the having knowledge of the future which creates this issue.

Now you say, "God is a precog."

I most certainly do not. I'm explaining why this particular god is either -not a precog- or conversely, why the narrative about free will and it's attendant consequences is in error.

If by that you mean, "God is omniscient," then I'll stick with my response. No one outcome pre-known; no problem.

Except that you no longer have a precog...which is a problem.

You would have to proove, by some philosophical, or scientific method that time can become static, which I don't yet agree that you have.

Can become static? Assuming quite a bit aren't we? I've actually presented both possibilities. In one example we are capable of making choices, but precognition is impossible. In the other precognition is possible, but we are incapable of making choices. I don't personally know whether time is set or static, but it matters very little with regards to the attributes you hope to claim for this god and this narrative. For the one to exist the other must bend. I don't honestly care which of these two things gets shit-canned (or if either of them gets shit-canned...because, to be completely blunt, I know that isn't going to happen). At the end of the day, as I've said many times, there is no need for this sort of narrative to be made consistent with logic, or even itself.

-You, however, have often stated that it is important to you.....but judging by the discourse in this thread I very much doubt that this is actually the case-

But as I suggested earlier, even if you are correct, there is still no reason to disbelieve in God.

Firstly, I'm not looking for reasons to disbelieve. Secondly, you have that whole process ass-backwards, and every-time you pretend to give a shit about logic and then make statements like this it makes me cringe.

One outcome pre-known; still no problem, because this is what Calvinists believe--freewill is an illusion.

Which is a problem.

God predestines everyone for heaven, or hell and no one can change her destiny.

Precisely the problem, cruel tormentor of human ants, ants who are incapable of making choices to alter the terrible destiny that awaits them.

I used to be a member of an Evangelical Presbyterian church, so I know. Agreeing that freewill is unreal does not prevent a believer in Reformed Theology from logically believing in God. The Calvinist would simply say you are correct and advise me to return to Calvinism.

Nothing prevents a person from believing in god if they are determined to do so.

A student of logic might say you have no FE (factual errors) for your premises might be correct, but you've committed an LE (logical error) since your premises support the opposite conclusion: Even if freedom of choice is impossible, it is still possible for God to exist.

LOL.....Go find some part of what I've been explaining to you that has to do with whether or not a god existed, until then, refrain from engaging in logical errors while you accuse someone of making logical errors.

This whole post smacks of fucking desperation Spock.....You know what's becoming clear to me here? That the only reason to "quit christianity" that you seem capable of imagining is that "god doesn't exist". This flirts with the notion that you are entirely likely to excuse this god for anything, however petty or malevolent, so long as it exists, the knee must bend. For me, personally, if this god were to appear before me and confirm the entirety of the narrative and attributes claimed for it, I still couldn't bring myself to bow. The notion of a "Guessing God", wagering all of existence (including my proposed immortal soul) on a hunch...like a junkie at a dog track, is hideous to me. The notion of the "Tyrant of Time" cruelly sentencing it's creations to damnation while providing no alternative, is hideous to me. Both of these would seem to be good reasons to quit christianity.......and that's assuming that this god did exist. I couldn't bring myself to feel reverence or awe for either of these creatures. While (assuming the entirety of the narrative) my refusal to buy in to either gods little pyramid scheme would have dire consequences -it would not be the first time that threats had been leveraged against me in order to force subservience, and it would not be the first time I refused to become subservient in the face of those threats. In the end, you never know, I may crack, perhaps I could not remain true to myself and my principles in the face of destruction. But even so, what would this creature have accomplished in breaking me? My example would only serve as an even stronger reminder of how petty and undeserving of worship such a creature was in the first place.

In the end, as I cower in the presence of the lord and sing praise for his profoundly malevolent power- those people outside the circle might look in and say "Jesus christ, look at what that monster did to Rhythm". Bravo, God.