Better reasons to quit Christianity

[spockrates]

The fate of Hitler would be no different from the fate of Abraham, Mohammad, or Mother Teresa.

Is this necessarily true, if God didn't punish Hitler, it would mean the fate of Hitler would be the same as Abraham?

First, Abraham would have a much higher honor and dignity, for the way he lived. Hitler would have much more disgrace and dishonor for the way he lived.

God having compassion for Hitler, doesn't mean he honors and respects Hitler the way he respects and honors Abraham.

Even if their fates become the same, the life they lived is different, and one will always feel pride and dignity for how one lived, while the other will feel disgrace and shame for how he lived.

Another thing is - perhaps - just perhaps - this is not our one and only chance.

Perhaps everyone deserves more then one chance to get it right. But even in this case, having lived a bad life, will always be upon you, and would never escape you.

Therefore even if both end result is peace and happiness, one would be of much higher dignity and honor then the other.

Omni-benevolent God would feel sorry for a person disgracing himself, much like we felt sorry for Anican Skywalker choosing the evil path, after being good.

Even when Annican Sky Walker turned back and became good at the end, it doesn't erase all the evil he has done, now does it?

Our history is forever connected with us.

Well said, mystic!



Yes, I agree there that many deserve a second chance--even after death. One reason why the Catholic concept of Purgatory seems logical to me.

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HEADLINE: Several forum members reported missing after going down unexplored rabbit trails in the "Better reasons to quit Christianity" thread. More at 10.

Good to see people having fun, instead of just debating and insulting. Nothing necessarily wrong with debate and insults, but humor has its place, too. (Socrates would agree, though Spock might give a solemn stare of disapproval.)

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Is this necessarily true, if God didn't punish Hitler, it would mean the fate of Hitler would be the same as Abraham?

How dare you people presume to know what is god's only to know?!
You have no idea if it's one way or the other, but are quick enough to assume one of them and then extrapolate. Amazing!

Oh, I don't know. I thought I was suggesting, not asserting. There's a passage in Jeremiah, I think:

"Surely you are a God who hides himself."

I suppose old Jerry would agree with you and say we can know nothing about God that he does not reveal to us.

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Is this necessarily true, if God didn't punish Hitler, it would mean the fate of Hitler would be the same as Abraham?

First, Abraham would have a much higher honor and dignity, for the way he lived. Hitler would have much more disgrace and dishonor for the way he lived.

Why?

Abraham proved he was willing to slaughter his own son, merely by being told to.

Hitler used his regime to 'cleanse' the world of the descendants of the so-called "Christ-killers", i.e. God's only-begotten son.

If you were this God and apportioning honour, dignity and disgrace, where would your judgements lie?

And yet, the actions of Hitler's régime created international sympathy for the Zionist cause to establish a Jewish nation in the region of Jerusalem. Something good came out of Hitler's atrocities, I suppose.

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Or so simple that even a child can understand it?

If that were so then you'd have trouble explaining why so much time is spent drilling this into children's heads and yet someday they find themselves in a place like this forum, incapable of explaining even the simplest portion of their superstitions to an incredulous onlooker.

On one level, so simple a child can understand it: Power limits knowledge. Love limits power. Knowledge limits love.

On another level, so deep an experienced theologian can drown in it.

Isn't much of what is worth learning the same, Rythm?

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Seriously, maybe this might help: Does any religion believe in a God that is totally omnibenevolent? No, of course not!

Sigh, yes, some do.

Yes, but ask someone who boldly (perhaps ignorantly?) claims God loves those in hell why she thinks this. Take the time to really listen to her and figure out what she means and why she believes it. What you will find is that the love she believes God has for the damned is inherent, rather than total. Ask her if forgiveness is an act of love, she will say, "Yes." Ask her if God has forgiven the consequences of the sins of the damned. She will say, "No." Ask her if God's love for them is so total that they are not judged for their sins, she might say, "No, but it's their choice to reject God's love. God didn't refuse to love them; they refused to accept his love. He didn't reject them; they rejected him."

Though she might not say God's love is total for some but inherent for others, the answers she gives to a sincere inquiry to understand her will make this obvious. (This is not true of all Christians, of course, but it is generally true of those who are not completely ignorant of why they believe.)