RE: The Myth of Masada
March 14, 2013 at 1:59 am
(This post was last modified: March 14, 2013 at 2:10 am by EGross.)
One thing to remember about Josephus, was that he was a murderous thug - his descriptions of the zealots/Biryonim/Sicarii are so jumbled at times it is hard to tell which group is the least evil or which is which. This is because, as he admitted, he was one of them. Was he someone who sliced up people who disagreed with his dogma and political agenda? Was he one who burned homes and supplies and threatened the populace to follow the party line, or was he just one who ranted? His story is odd, but there is a section where he admits surrendering, while, according to his story his men chose death. And his aspirations to Romanhood, to be adopted into the family Flavius, marrying one woman after another as he rose in social standing (he had the unfortunate bad luck of picking wives who did not have long lives), and his patronis was Vespasian.
From other sources, we read that it was Josephus who told Vespasian the Moshiach story, of prophecy, and encouraged Vespasian to believe that HE (a Roman), could be destined to be the Moshiach of the Jews, and Vespasian demanded all of the Davidic descendants to be killed because of that (he wasn't that successful, but enough were massacred for this mad plot seeded by Josephus). Josephus wrote what he was told, or what was approved, and became the official chronicler of the Roman mad man. His son, Titus, was a lot more stable, and according to jewish legend, had permitted many Jews to escape death that was demanded by his father.
Ok, so this is the background of the historian, who wanted so much to rise to the top of Roman society, and was the official chronicler of a man who would be king, messiah, and a god.
And chuck has a good point. The story was never accepted by the Jews, even during the time it happened, and was fully ignored. And it was only when those who needed some sort of historical rallying cry to be a symbol of defiance (although how dying for a cause is a very weird symbol in my eyes) picked the Josephus story, and used it for indoctrination to make it a national rallying cry, then that is where symbolism can go bad. Unlike religious symbolism, however, it can be tossed away when its use is over.
But it makes for a nice story (and movie) and tourist attraction.
While they might have had cremation in practice, they had a history of leaving the dead enemies to rot. The story of their attack on Beitar, the battle that was the turning point in the Bar Kochba war, is one example. There is a Jewish custom after eating a meal to say a blessing that commemorates the Romans finally permitting the Jews to collect the bodies for burial.
And there was a cave found at Masada with a half dozen bodies, buried with the roman custom of a pig and their weapons (even a dead guy has to eat!)
And even if you can imaging them bulldozing 1000 bodies into a pile and having a pyre. One would expect to find even one skull. Or even a dagger.
From other sources, we read that it was Josephus who told Vespasian the Moshiach story, of prophecy, and encouraged Vespasian to believe that HE (a Roman), could be destined to be the Moshiach of the Jews, and Vespasian demanded all of the Davidic descendants to be killed because of that (he wasn't that successful, but enough were massacred for this mad plot seeded by Josephus). Josephus wrote what he was told, or what was approved, and became the official chronicler of the Roman mad man. His son, Titus, was a lot more stable, and according to jewish legend, had permitted many Jews to escape death that was demanded by his father.
Ok, so this is the background of the historian, who wanted so much to rise to the top of Roman society, and was the official chronicler of a man who would be king, messiah, and a god.
And chuck has a good point. The story was never accepted by the Jews, even during the time it happened, and was fully ignored. And it was only when those who needed some sort of historical rallying cry to be a symbol of defiance (although how dying for a cause is a very weird symbol in my eyes) picked the Josephus story, and used it for indoctrination to make it a national rallying cry, then that is where symbolism can go bad. Unlike religious symbolism, however, it can be tossed away when its use is over.
But it makes for a nice story (and movie) and tourist attraction.
(March 14, 2013 at 1:49 am)Minimalist Wrote: The Romans almost exclusively practiced cremation in the first century so the lack of bodies is not much of a surprise. They were either crucified as a lesson or burned.
While they might have had cremation in practice, they had a history of leaving the dead enemies to rot. The story of their attack on Beitar, the battle that was the turning point in the Bar Kochba war, is one example. There is a Jewish custom after eating a meal to say a blessing that commemorates the Romans finally permitting the Jews to collect the bodies for burial.
And there was a cave found at Masada with a half dozen bodies, buried with the roman custom of a pig and their weapons (even a dead guy has to eat!)
And even if you can imaging them bulldozing 1000 bodies into a pile and having a pyre. One would expect to find even one skull. Or even a dagger.
“I've done everything the Bible says — even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"— Ned Flanders
