(June 26, 2013 at 2:34 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Show me an unsupportable one that I've made Ryan.
Oh boy. You might as well have dropped me off at a liquor store and dared me to come out with just one thing alcoholic. What a gold mine, and this was from less than half a dozen threads. I could save time just linking to your post history, but here's a select few. Take care to note how many times you make positive assertions regarding the existence of God and his attributes
fr0d0 Wrote:I only assert what is provable.
Then you can start by proving all of these:
- God wouldn't send a dog to hell for doing what comes naturally, because the dog doesn't choose it.
- Fate is nature.
- God is a logical God.
- God loves you without that love being reciprocated
- His point in creating us was to replicate himself.
- What religion does is reflect reality.
- Your solution to the problem of evil is an unworkable fantasy.
- There is only good. There are not several (fully) goods.
- Creator and goodness are inextricably linked.
- A first cause has to be fully potential. What is purely potential is also purely good.
- The creative spark wouldn't be a creative spark of there existed in it a destructive spark.
- Goodness isn't a property of God. God -is- goodness.
- Murder and rape aren't what God commanded.
- 'A' god might be created. But 'the' god, the first cause, cannot.
- To create, god has to be a positive force.
- A negative force cannot create.
- A god cannot be created or it is not god. So a god must be timeless.
- A positive, originating force has to also be good, as good entails this
- We understand Gods morality because we have a sense of ethical correctness which we apply selfishly. Humans can appreciate the reason for justice.
- The bible is written about a good god.
- To say that the bible is evidence of the opposite is to say that the authors wrote the opposite of what they understood.
- But what you're failing to address here, is the fact that God knows exactly what the person is thinking, and how their whole life pans out. Exactly what they will do in the future.
- He knows enough to judge fairly if that life deserves to continue.
- It is a Christian principle that everyone has the potential to change their minds. That can't apply to God. He does know.
- God is just
- The bible has nothing immoral in it committed by God
- Does that secular morality apply to God? No. His knowledge is not limited.
- Only God can know and fairly judge.
- The choices are not made for you. They were always only your choices. You were not forced to make them.
- God knows the history of the universe from beginning to end.
- He is not bound by linear time.
- He knows what decisions you made, but he had no part in influencing those decisions. Those were fully yours to make.
- God knows the future so you, who do not, don't have free will?
- You omit the fact that God would judge the whole life of the child and it's potential descendants.
- Only God can know if that future is innocent or guilty, and is the only one who can exact justice.
- God served justice.
- Please show how you arrive at murder and crimes. None are there in the original.
- Please explain how you, like God, are omniscient.
- Other gods = not gods.
- To you, who doesn't get that God being good underpins morality, the "10Cs" make no sense.
- Can we say that genocide is always unjustifiable? No.
- My beliefs are entirely logically based.
- The bible DOESN'T say that God got things wrong.
- Yet God cannot be wrong in his judgements, which is the angle the bible takes, as that would be illogical.
- We can understand something of God through logical deduction.
- Ultimate Morality isn't knowable to any being that isn't all knowing.
- God doesn't "decide" what is moral. God is perfectly moral. That is what divine goodness is.
- God forces nothing, or you wouldn't have the choice to act immorally.
- Hell is the immediate just reward for immorality.
- Perfect morality is a goal all people can aspire to.
- Everything you're using to put down theistic morality is human abuse of that theism.
- God, being all knowing, is in a position to make that call.
- If God is love and wants to love us, then he has to let evil exist to give us the freedom to choose love.
- This physical reality is ethically neutral (at best). God is the positive force. What detracts from god is anti god.
- As we deduce that God must be just (by constructing a coherent model) then God can be no other. What isn't just cannot be God.
- Gods purpose is to provide a choice.
- God being just enacts justice.
- Where God is just, we have to understand his actions to be just.
- God knows the future, so he knew those lives and could judge fairly at what point justice needed to be served.
- Morality with God wins hands down.
To close, one last quote from you:
fr0d0 Wrote:So here we are again, waiting for these inspired claims to be substantiated. Meanwhile, we must assume their falsity.
Thanks for making it easy.
Oh, here's a bonus contradiction:
fr0d0 Wrote:God knows the future so you, who do not, don't have free will?
fr0d0 Wrote:There is no such thing as free will. We act as we're biologically programmed to do.
Thus putting on display the lie that we are being judged by a just god.