Atheism's Definition - Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

[Strongbad]

For those of you that are more philosophically orientated, this is for you:

My gut feeling is that "atheism" is more than just the denial of the claim "God exists". This is justified by what I felt after deconversion, and maybe I can make that extend to an objective philosophy--

I'm not sure I agree with this 100%.

When you say "I don't believe in God", what exactly is it about "God" that you don't believe in?

It means you no longer believe the claims made about God existing. In the absence of a positive claim being made about God's existence, there is nothing to disbelieve "in".

If we personified "God" and called him Jerry, what would you say about Jerry? "I don't believe in the person Jerry". I mean, let's get real. What exactly is it about Jerry that you're not believing? *cough* his existence *cough cough*?

Let's explore this a little further with an analogy that I think stays more true to the matter at hand than "there are X things, and we don't know if it's an even or odd number":

Say we have a closet in a mansion which was said to contain a monkey inside.

A positive claim has been made that there is a monkey in the closet. Which, apparently, cannot be verified.

The door is bolted shut and we don't have any tools to pry it open. Thus, we are all agnostics about there being a monkey inside because we will never have direct evidence to support the claim for or against. Now, if your perceived experience of this monkey is that he's mute, doesn't seem to move inside and it doesn't smell like there is a monkey in the closet, what would your belief be in terms of the claim "there is a monkey in the closet"? The "atheist" might say "I don't believe in that monkey".

Or, an atheist might say "I don't believe the claim that there is a monkey in that closet". The claim is what is not believed "in", not the monkey.

But given your perception of said monkey, isn't your leading thought "there is *no* monkey in that closet" which is then the justifying belief that prompts you to say "I don't believe in that monkey"? Can you not see that the simple statement "I don't believe in that monkey" on its own is actually rather useless to the point of just being a little silly?[quote]

Yes, saying that you do not believe "in" the monkey does seem rather silly.

[quote]Fast forward to a cocktail party happening at said mansion with other fellow monkey believers and monkey deniers, where you get into a conversation with a monkey believer:

I don't think "monkey deniers" are the same as "people who don't believe the claim that there is a monkey in the closet".

Monkey Believer: "that monkey is going crazy in there I say!"
You: "Well, I have to disagree. I don't believe in that monkey."
M.B: "Oh? You don't think there's a monkey in there?"
Y: "I NEVER SAID THAT. I'm just saying I don't believe in that monkey."

You have indicated that not believing "in" something means that you do not believe it exists. The claim is that there is a monkey in the closet, but you are countering with "I don't believe the monkey exists"?

M.B: "Oh... do you think the monkey is in there at least..?"
Y: "Sir, my experience with the closet leads me to disbelieve in this monkey. That is all there is to it - I simply don't believe in that monkey. I am a-monkey, full stop!"
M.B: "So you don't believe in the monkey because you have no indirect evidence of it?"
Y: "Correct!"
M.B: "Wouldn't that lead you to think there is no monkey..?"
Y: "I'm not making that claim, sir. I'm simply a-monkey."
M.B: "Well, is there or isn't there a monkey?"
Y: "Good lord... I"M NOT MAKING ANY CLAIMS ABOUT THE MONKEY. I simply lack the belief in this monkey. I am A-MONKEY."
M.B: *whispers to himself* "sounds like you don't believe any monkey exists in the closet old chap." *walks away, sipping at his cocktail*.


I think the above highlights why my deconversion led me to believe the negative of theism - that there is *no* god(s). Otherwise, simply "disbelieving in God" without saying "God doesn't exist" almost makes me sound like I'm an atheist who is angry at God, and I'm merely rejecting him by saying I don't believe in him. Such an absurd statement about myself is clearly false, and undeniably false because in fact *I believe God doesn't exist* to begin with. I used to hear the monkey talk, hear movements and smell his presence, but now I've realised the closet is incredibly silent, which leads me to the sensible conclusion that there wasn't ever a monkey to begin with - or he died from starvation

To conclude, my suggestion for the term "atheism" would be: lacks the belief of the theist, and such a state can be identified as believing the opposite claim of the theist - that God doesn't exist.
After all, it's a dichotomy, and if you're not a theist, then chances are deep in the back of your mind you think deities are but the stuff of the imagination. You're just too lazy to deal with the implications of accepting you don't believe god(s) to exist.

I don't see how you jump from disbelieving the claim that God exists to believing the opposite - that God does not exist. Why does not believing one claim automatically lead to believing another?