Does BDSM Need Its Own Rights Movement?

[kılıç_mehmet]

I am, however, talking to you about it.

You represent a mentality, I represent a mentality, which is exactly the reason why I find it appropriate to discuss this topic under a collective context.

Well gosh, how about that very human need to interact with people who share your interests? How about that very reasonable desire, in people who get the short shrift from others, to get together and show that we aren't ashamed of what we are, no matter how we're portrayed elsewhere? Pride, camaraderie, even just talking shop? Perhaps, just maybe, displaying that this unthinking "sex are immoral and private" attitude is mistaken?

Well, according to your reasoning, if you go on about dressing like freaks and display your kink props out on the streets for everyone to see, you're going to break all barriers.
But in truth, what you're doing is very much like someone going around telling the people, kids, and the elderly on the streets in which positions and how long he screwed his wife the other night. He's also rather proud of his performance. Its essentially the same thing. Now how do you suppose that the people on the streets ought to react to this man?
Of course most are going to tell him to fuck off.

Really man. What you're doing is little more than unsavory exhibitionism that goes against all forms of human decency, by violating the borders of private life and public life, and public morals, while claiming "pride" as the motivation.

No, this attitude is not mistaken, obviously, else people would have sex in front of their parents, children, collegues, and in public places.
Obviously sex is a private thing that needs to be private.
We are not mindless animals, no matter how much you'd like us to be.

To be clear, we get portrayed as weirdoes, immoral, abusers... is it that far fetched that we'd want to correct the record? Not everything has to be about offending people, merely because that offense is an end product.

Well, aren't you weirdos? I really do not wish to get into the whole details of your weirdom, some aspects are rather innocent, while some aspects are so disgusting and beyond all comprehension that
As for immorality, and abuse, you have already forfeited morality when you saw yourselves above the public with your weird antics and abused your rights (of expression)when you decided to infringe other people's rights not to be subjected to things that they might find unsavory and bestial. Public places are not your playgrounds.

The whole world has gone crazy as it seems. Fringe groups claiming the streets, the borders between public and private life diminishing....
Really, it won't be too long until the horse and dog fuckers go on about their own pride parades praising inter-species love.

I don't take fiat assertions to be evidence.

Well, I guess it was nature who told these guys to let others piss and shit on themselves...
What sick fucks, really.

And are all things with small followings bad? Because, you know, vegetarianism, playing pool and a whole host of other things are relatively small, in terms of practitioners. Are they all bad and weird and abnormal too?

Well, if there is something with only a marginal following, it means that it is usually not appealing to the majority of the public. In your case, it is due to the abnormal and weird practices it includes in itself. If your practices were normal and appealing to everyone, that obviously wouldn't be the case.
So why you still want to argue about the normality aspect is beyond me.
The fact that you're a marjinal group says a lot about how well you fit in with the norm, i.e. you are a marjinal group because you don't fit in with the normal people.

As for your example, I'd say that diet is nowhere near comparable to this.
Vegetarians in western countries such as yourself view food no longer as "you eat what you get", but "you eat what you want". Obviously, they have the means of altering their diet to fit their choice. But people in India, who have little choice in what they get as their food, being a full-time meat eater is not a choice my friend.
Same for the people in Mongolia, where meat is staple on the table.
Its a matter of survival for them, not preference.

Or is there another set of metrics that have nothing to do with the number of people performing an act, that you're using? Perhaps they're derived from your opinions about what's good and bad, and not on sociology?

Well, if we are to get into the sociological aspects...I'd say that society is not keen to "normalize" fringe pleasures and useless antics.
Usually, "normal" is what is most beneficial to society. A healthy sexuality based on the natural ways is and was always seen as the norm.
Anything else was usually reserved for those who walked the back alleys and disreputable neighborhoods, might I be telling you.

Who the fuck cares what the greatest number of people think? They can be wrong: if you were born a hundred years ago and applied that logic, you'd be okay with slavery. Go back further, and your idea of sexuality would involve murdering non-virgins. Social trends and norms have no impact on the truth, and what I think is really going on is you're using that as a cover for the fact that you really do just find it icky.

What truth? There is only one truth in this thread and that is that these people are considered freaks by the standards of both today and by the standards of 100 or even 1000 years ago.
Sorry to break it down to you.

Social trends and norms change if society, meaning, the majority wants it to.
And throughout the eons of human history, norms have never been truly in your favor, and as humanity progressed, they became more in your disfavor, as people began to establish certain standards and certain ideals regarding human relationships.

So then move your children somewhere else, and your elderly too. It's not like these demonstrations happen every day, and more importantly, we aren't responsible for keeping you from being offended. Such arrogance! Better not let people kiss or hold hands in public, such impropriety might offend someone. Best not let people of different races commingle, there are probably some older people who're against mixed relationships. Rolleyes

Anything for you darling.
Anything for you and your leathery friends.
I'll also turn a blind eye when you later come to ejaculate on my door and throw crap at my windows, its all for the sake of liberation and equality.
Really, this madness of yours has no end.

You don't have a right to control public spaces so that you don't get offended. Take responsibility for yourself.

I do have the right to expect people to act in accord with public decency rules. You on the other hand break that social conduct.

Then I guess they don't have to stand there and watch. I don't want to hear people's cell phone calls when I'm out and about, but I don't demand everyone hang up immediately, either. What makes you so special?

Well, you can on the other hand, request that they silence their phones in a meeting, or in class. Obviously there is a rule of conduct for every place.
But for you, there are no rules, and you just make them up as you go. Obviously the only thing that would keep you in line is punishment by law, as you exploit and misuse liberty to the full.

No, it's like if you asked my opinion of a football team, and I called you a deviant, immoral weirdo for liking them. Keep your analogies straight.

Would you be offended, if I insulted you based on a single datapoint like that?

Well, my analogies are straight, you simply do not understand them.
The point was not what they called you, they can call you a facking manc if you're in England.
My point was that you first let yourself known to me, although I have voiced my opinion on the "scene" before, so you already knew my answer, then told me that you don't care. Yeah.
It is the marjinal mentality.

You're saying we're deviants. We're not, ergo, lies. It's bigger than that, obviously, but I really shouldn't have to explain to you how my position is that your views don't reflect reality, and you've failed to show otherwise.

Bigger than what? There is nothing bigger in this. You expect me to see and find a deep philosophy, an instense meaning behind your already bestial and weird looking scene?
Don't make me laugh mate. Like, perverts rather would like to philosophise about their perversion rather than face the fact that they are perverts and live with it or not, I really tend to think that you tend to give too much thought about these humble words of mine than you would let me know.

Who's emotional? I'm just not copping your bullshit, is all.

Besides, those reactions that actions beget? People sometimes make ill informed ones, or immoral ones. A short look back at history should tell you how good the reactions made against the actions of any given Other are.

Well, alright, but I don't think that there is anything to be misinformed about this scene...Like, it speaks pretty much for itself. The material is out there for everyone to read. Its not like you're so secretive anymore. You walk the streets in those weird costumes of yours. There is not much for me to misconceive.

Good to see you dehumanizing people so easily: definitely hasn't been any morally incorrect actions that begin with that. Rolleyes

Oh I'm sorry, I'm dehumanizing people? Isn't that part of YOUR scene?
Dehumanization? Humiliation? Domination? Your hypocrisy stinks to the high heavens that Chingiss Khan has to cover his nose right now.

And your position is that in a society where those clothes are acceptable, he'd be normal and you'd be the freak. Certainly shows how much of your position is based on personal opinion and not facts.

There is no such society. They are acceptable in the only place where they can be worn. Amongst weirdos and freaks.

You've mistaken "what you like" for "what is normal." The world isn't as two dimensional as you want to portray it. That is all.

Well, I think its the other way. I don't define normal in accordance to what I like. I define normal in accordance with society.
You on the other hand want to define normal in accordance with what you like, which is why we're having this discussion.
I inform you about what is normal according to society, and you are informing me that you do not accept these norms, and you want them to be re-defined to suit your tastes. This is all there is to say about this.