Atheism destroyed with a question

[EvolutionKills]

Yes you do, for life to arise naturally. You need a very large and very old universe where improbable things happen all the time

The whole universe is a process that generated the structure and matter required to eventually form life in an orderly sequence or chain of events over time. This only works if the shit was fine tuned out of it right from the very start. God purposefully created the universe and he designed it in such a precise way as to guarantee the eventual natural product of life and the evolution of intelligence and civilization. It actually fits with the Genesis narrative quite well at least in general outline.

We are adapted to the universe, the universe is not made for us. Our universe is fine-tuned to create black holes, not life bearing worlds.

, by the very nature of it's size and age. These things are what we would expect to see from a universe where life has arisen naturally.

No it's what you would expect to see in a universe that was deliberately engineered by a supreme intelligence with a goal in mind. You really think this was non-intentional?

Life adapted to the environment, not vice versa. If this planet didn't support life, we simply would not be here to have this 'debate'.

God only needed one planet, he didn't need anything else.

He created the entire universe as a whole for life and intelligent life and we are among the intelligent forms of life. There will no doubt be countless others. It's not that the universe was created merely for humans unless you want to class all intelligent beings with language and culture and whatever as human.

Within our own solar system...

Mercury? Not fine tuned for life.

Venus? Not fine tuned for life.

Earth? Contains the thinnest slice of life along it's crust, like a thin coat of pain on a basketball.

Mars? Not fine tuned for life.

Asteroid belt? Not fine tuned for life.

Jupiter? Not fine tuned for life.

Saturn? Not fine tuned for life.

Uranus? Not fine tuned for life.

Neptune? Not fine tuned for life.

The hundreds of moons orbiting all of the planets? Not fine tuned for life.

God could have made the world as it is literally described in the Bible, enclosed by a solid firmament. Stars? Just decorations. No travel to the moon, it's just a light inside the firmament; as is the Sun. Solid sky, flat Earth. A downward force unrelated to mass. Heat and warmth could emanate from the sky, no giant ball of nuclear fussion needed. This was what people actually thought was the state of reality, until we learned better. All you're doing now is making another step back and a long line of steps back. First your god lost his home on top of the mountains, then the top of the firmament, no he no longer even exists on the planet. We made it to the moon, and now god exists outside of time and space. I guarantee if we ever manage to transcend or breach these limits and god is most assuredly found missing again, apologist will just move your god back another step.


To say that this universe is fine-tuned with us in mind belies a complete lack of imagination and abject scientific ignorance.

Every additional star, every additional planet, is a piece of evidence against the Abrahamic god.

No it just increases the sheer scale of what God created.

They are superfluous and unneeded by the entirely Earth centered Abrahamic religions. What does the Bible even say about the stars? Nothing more than that they are both beautiful and numerous. That's it. A child looking up at the sky can tell you just as much about the universe as your god did.

That ought to tell you something about the source of your religious texts.

But for argument's sake let's say god, for his own mysterious reasons, wants it all to run via nuclear fusion and stellar nucleosynthesis in the Sun; and photosynthesis on Earth. He still only need one star and one planet, anything beyond that would be window dressing.

He made the whole entire thing with the outcome of producing life such as humanity. He will then reveal himself to his creatures as he sees fit, as happened in our own case.

Then your god is wasteful and deceitful, creating a universe that generates more and more doubt the more you learn about it. Also, what evidence do you have that this god has revealed himself? The Bible isn't evidence. Personal revelation isn't evidence. Do you have anything that would convince a neutral observer, a skeptic, to the truth of your particular god-concept? I doubt it, and I've yet to see it.

In such an empty universe it would indeed seem the Earth was a special place, and the focus of creation; adding tremendous weight to the Earth centered religious beliefs But by that same token, if there were two suns that would bring the Earth centered religions into doubt. That would be doubly true if there were three suns; and for each addition sun after that the doubts grow.

It's unlikely binary or triple star systems would support complex life given the gravitational forces and erratic planetary orbits involved.

But an all-powerful god could have made it work, indeed he has to be able to by definition; you simply lack the imagination to entertain the concept.

If there were only one world it might be unreasonable to say that life exists on that one world by chance alone. For atheistic ideas to have any support, for it to be true that life arose by pure coincidence, conditions, and elements; there must be more than one sun. More than one roll of the dice. A universe with two suns helps the atheistic argument, but not by much. Three suns would only offer a slight improvement over that. The current estimates (linked to the research in the sidebar) suggest that there are seventy sextillion stars (70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) in the observable universe alone; and very good reasons to believe that the actual universe is far, far... far, far, far larger. Seventy sextillion? Each one of these countless chances at life is an argument in favor of atheism;

You're misunderstanding that it is the universe God created, not just the Earth.

Evidence? Your claimed fine-tuning is not evidence, it's merely your ignorance, bias, and anthropocentrism generating an overlay that doesn't exists and has no evidence for.

at least in it's opposition to the Earth centered religions of Christianity and Islam.

Back in the day people thought the universe was quite small and the Earth was at the centre of it, but it was the universe as a whole God created. All that has changed is that the universe God created is far bigger than we understood. Also we're not at the physical centre but we can still be the centre of the overall natural process if this was the intention from the start.

Nope. The universe was created by Herbert.

I have just as much evidence for that assertion as you do for your god. Good luck with that.