(June 10, 2014 at 5:41 pm)Lek Wrote: Like I've said many times before, you can't discover the supernatural by purely natural processes. The signs are there in the structure of the universe and in living creatures, but you're blind to them, because you've limited your options in interpreting them.But experience shows that we can arrive at a consensus regarding natural processes because we can create testable hypotheses and our theories can be improved or even replaced as we learn more. In thousands of years, there is no consensus on supernatural explanations for anything, be it natural or supernatural. Even people with the same core religious beliefs will differ on explanations. And since we are dealing with the supernatural, there is not a single testable claim to be made.
You are correct, we have limited our options in interpreting the world and universe around us. We have limited them to those things that can be tested, and pushed away the wild speculation that forms the myriad conflicting beliefs and claims of religion. The religious person pushes away most of the supernatural for the same reason he grasps onto a small portion of it: just because.
Remember: the theist dismisses most claims of the supernatural and accepts only those that fit into his particular religious faith. I treat your god the way you treat everyone else's. In that sense, I'm only slightly more limited and stubborn than you are. But I'm much more consistent.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
-Stephen Jay Gould