Christian motives to lie.

[Mister Agenda]

Oh, I've encountered some real liars for Jesus in RL and online.

Two I remember in particular:

One claimed that he saw a missionary in Africa hold up a bible when someone tried to shoot him and the bullets magically . . . I mean "miraculously" changed direction and missed.

Another claimed that he was at a faith healers and witnessed someone's leg grow longer - not grow back, but grow longer to match the other leg.

The thing is, there are people who fall for these obviously bullshit stories.

The leg-lengthening bit is an old faith healer trick, parlor magic.

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In any case, "I knew a couple of Christians once" is a gross misrepresentation of what I said (assuming the retort was directed at me), thus ironically reinforcing the theme of this thread. Perhaps I ought to reiterate the part where I said they are friends of mine, very old friends at that; they were the ones who got my Sam and I together. They're gonna love reading this.

No, just making a GENERALIZED point. How does it feel?

Really familiar, now that you're back. Hey, ronedee!

What [is] a GROSS misrepresentation.... is that ALL Christians lie.

SOME Christians lie about experiences relating to their Christianity.

Actually, to be perfectly honest, all men lie. There's some generalized truth for you.

No kidding.

... but, it's a childish lie on the part of anti's to continually make broad, sweeping statements (not just in this thread) about ALL Christians, and especially Catholics.

What was especially Catholic about what was said on this thread up to this point? Was the bus driver a Catholic? It wasn't apparent from the post. And I'm not seeing a claim that all Christians do this, which would be an important piece of evidence for your claim that the posters are generalizing unfairly.

When [you know] in fact it does not represent the vast majority of the community. As a matter of fact, it more resembles your figures here: one, three... "a couple". NOT BILLIONS! Or, even millions.

Swapping these sorts of stories was pretty much universal among the Pentecostal churches I grew up in. Last time I was home, my dad was telling me about the leg-lengthening thing, that's how I first heard about it. I can step into any United Pentecostal church and hear stories about resurrections in Africa, amputated legs growing back before your eyes in South America, and so on. It's not billions...but it likely IS millions. That sort of thing doesn't take true deceitfulness, though, just a willingness to accept stories uncritically as long as the person telling them shares your religion and the story matches your beliefs.

It doesn't matter to you, or anyone here that "most" Christians go about the world doing good, and helping their fellow humans.... atheists included! Because being hated isn't a deal breaker for them. They love, and do good; for goods sake.

Most Christians are good, decent people; just like most other people. A lot of them are quick to tell us they'd go on a murder and rape spree if they didn't believe in God, though. I don't believe most of them when they say that, they're better people than they think they are, for the most part.

But, that isn't news worthy is it?

No, it isn't. Do you know what the term 'news worthy' means?

That isn't a good reason to hate us, huh?

We don't make fun of you because we hate you. We make fun of you because you're funny.

So basically, you are lying to yourselves, and to each other. In the supreme effort to bring ALL Christians down. Because you: "don't like it". "want it", or "don't need it". Well.... WE DO!

You do what?

You know what? We don't "like" you guys either.

No kidding. I couldn't tell with all that froth on your lips.

But, we do love you!

Apparently, only in ways you don't have to show. Judging by you, loving us doesn't include being patient with us, fair to us, or listening to us. What good is 'love' like that? It just makes you come off as a hypocrite to say you love us and talk like you can't stand us.

Because no matter how you act, or what you say, or what you do.... you were created in God's image.

Is that why the more Christian a state is, the more likely it is to carry the death penalty? Christians as a group aren't worse than other huge groups. They're just not notably better. Which they should be if their claims are true, don't you think? It would be a great selling point for Christianity (short of personal appearances from Jesus) if Christians made up 7% of our prison population instead of around ten times that. How are we supposed to believe you have some sort of truth when whatever you have doesn't seem to make any measurable difference?

And He deserves better. We love whatever of God that is still left. No matter how small. No matter how hidden. Its still there. That's our real "motive". To find Him in EVERYTHING! Ironically, even [in] an atheist forum.

So it's not US you love at all, just some 'God bit' you think is floating in us somewhere. What good is that kind of love? If I love someone, I actually love that person. That's love you can take to the bank.

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Personally I don't think most xtians are lying when they tell you what justifies their beliefs. It is common for everyone to interpret their experience in terms of their operating assumptions (which they might even think are divinely inspired). We all do it (except for the invoking divinities part). Remember lies are untruths told when you know them to be untruths. Most xtians are operating under the effects of Kool-aid. They believe that shit. (We just believe different shit.)

"Personally"? I believe "your" opinion is not valid. Kool-Aid is a LIE!

So, it seems you disagree with Whateverist when he says he doesn't think most Christians are lying. That's a little surprising, but I expect you didn't actually pay much attention to the post you're quoting.

So, you are saying "your shit" is a lie too?

He didn't say anyone's shit was a lie.

If we are standing on either sides of a line...who is telling the Truth?

He seems to think both sides think they are.

So, what argument do the anti's have when they challenge me?

No one challenged you. You just showed up and started crapping all over the thread.

How do you separate Truthful Christians from Lying Christians? Its rather contradictory wouldn't you say? Mincing of words?

Weren't you the one who pointed out that EVERYONE lies? Everyone is a liar, but some of the things they say they believe to be true, and unless they're unusually obtuse, some of the things they say actually are true. It's better to evaluate the truth of claims than of people.

"Well....we didn't say "ALL"!? Is that like: "It depends on what [is] means." type of argument?

Not a bit like that kind of argument. It doesn't depend on what 'all' means or on what 'Christians' means. It depends on whether someone said (or provably meant, depite their protestations) all Christians.

We Christians are: either ALL saying the Truth, or we are ALL lying in my view of the subject.

That's the stupidest view on any subject that I've ever heard.

So what is it? And use a good example besides drinking a "Lie".

Someone who loved Whateverist in ANY way would have troubled to read his post closely enough to learn that he wasn't saying anyone was lying, that all involved are usually speaking in good faith. It's called the Law of Charity (do not assume malice), it would be nice to see a Christian here practicing it for a change.

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Lying has nothing to do with it.

If only someone had thought to point that out before you came along.