refuting misconceptions:1-women in Islam

[mo3taz3nbar]

I disagree, if it were so, the sentence would be: "The wrong-doers and the things they worshipped besides Allah, and lead them to the Way to the (Fierce) Fire!" because the word wrong-doers refers to both men and women.

this is the right translation as i speak arabic so i can compare some of other translations can give more than one meaning and that what will get you confused as a new person searching in religion

Most translations write: "The wrong-doers and their wives". It emphasizes again that women are subordinated to men, and will have the same fate as their masters, even though they did not directly do anything wrong. And we do NOT see the same thing in the other way around, which means that women are chained to their husband's in fate but not the other way around.

Say: "Shall I seek for (my) Cherisher other than Allah, when He is the Cherisher of all things (that exist)? Every soul draws the meed of its acts on none but itself: no bearer of burdens can bear of burdens can bear the burden of another. Your goal in the end is towards Allah. He will tell you the truth of the things wherein ye disputed."(Quran 6:164)

But do you realize that this particular verse has multiple mainstream interpretations that goes against the declaration of human rights ?

Also it means that the Qur'an leaves the arabic reader the choice for the meaning that seems the best to him. This is a major failure for a so-called divinely inspired book....It is up to personal interpretation. To me this is the end of Truth in the Qur'an.

noo its the other way around its clear in arabic but when translating in english sometimes there is no suitable word to give the exact same meaning not the arabic word itself have different meanings

You say abdallah yusuf ali is the best to understand the Qur'an, but saying that your interpretation is true because it comes from an expert scholar is an argument from authority. That guy may be "the best" he still remains faillible, therefore his interpretation is not the Truth.

am not talking about someones interpretation am saying he is the best as he put some words between brackets that make it closer to the real meaning in arabic

And as the year passes the exact understanding of ancient arabic words is lost. The "true" meaning (if it ever existed) of the Qur'an is condemned to disappear in the void. So much for a divine book...

lol its not phoraonic man its arabic but sometimes you need to use a dictionary for the exact meaning

I forgot previously to talk about that verse by the way:
2:223 Your wives are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth, when or how you will, and send (good deeds, or ask Allah to bestow upon you pious offspring) for your ownselves beforehand.

Again the husband seems to own his wife and can dispose of her any time he wants.

tell me what you understand from "......and send for your ownself beforehand"??

This verse seems crystal clear to me. Could you provide this "context" explaining the "degree" in an other way than "being superior" ? The only way to avoid it could be to use Mohsin Khan's translation, but he's the only one to make the comment about degree of responsibility, and he only put it in parenthesis...

muhsin khan just wrote it but even if he didnt it still means responsibility when attaching it to the words before it that they are equal

So you do agree that in a quite common case, the males get twice as much as females. The fact that in some other cases the females get more than males does NOT excuses or justifies the first injustice. It is wrong by any western standard and according to the human rights, and it is no misconception unfortunately.

why are you ignoring the cases that the women gets more????????

Same thing here, an injustice does not undo another injustice.

ok am not trying to clarify the reasons for different situations i just prove that the reason is not because of woman and man

So you still agree with this hadith that a woman's mind is deficient due to helplessness against their own emotions

you are talking as this is something bad but in fact its a very good thing thats why the women are better than men in some jobs like being a doctor and also in dealing with kids

Let's have an example: I'm in a room with some guy, I have a gun, I tell him that if he tries to leave the room I'll kill him (because my religion demand that I do such a thing). Is there (or not) a constraint imposed on the guy ? Is there a compulsion on his choice wether to leave the room ?

the forbidden thing is compulsion between humanbeing but god telling you what will happen to you after death is not called compulsion it is warning

First, the slavery comment was secondary, but you're actually saying that chosing to regulate slavery instead of condemning it 1400 years ago is ok ??? Do you realize that this can be used nowadays to authorize slave trade if properly regulated ???

am saying that slavery was ended wisely not with any civil wars like the wars happened when abraham lincolin was the president and there is no possibility of that except if your enemies in war was taking slaves from your army

Secondly, you did not adress my real question here. 2:256 says no compulsion in religion/belief, which means you can choose your religion, but inside religions there are compulsory thing and that compusion is ok. This means that, according to 33:59 and 24:30-31, muslim women MUST cover their body, and it's compulsory.
And if you take 2:256 as a general statement inside the religions then it contradicts with all compulsory things in Islam such as 33:59 and 24:30-31 .

no compulsory between humans god forbiding something is not compulsory

That doesn't solve the problem, I still have to trust the author of the commentary, that his knowledge of ancient Arabic is absolutely complete.

yes thats right and if you are really interested you can contact any muslim who speak english it will make it easier i dont see this that hard

So you're basically basing your entire faith on the accuracy of the knowledge of one guy...
Also, you talk about "bad translations", but compared to what ? To another translation of course. It's all relative.

my first language is arabic i dont have this problem but i mentioned before what you can do
“

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)”.(quran 49:13)
this is the base in any form of relation between any human beings.

And I notice that the important words are between parenthesis: it's Abdullah Yussuf Ali's personal interpretation, and I can't find them in other translations. It is again sadly up to one's own interpretation

its not interpretation its translation the best thing to do in your case is to get Quran with commentry(not with interpretation) i think it will solve the problem of basic translations
at last i want to say that you think that this is my interpretation which is different than other which is not correct this is the normal interpretation within the context that the majority cant be different with its clear and easy to understand you cant consider what extremists do as different interpretation
regarding what you think about that this will get women back 100 years i really see its the rights of women that wasnt given to them untill last hundred years Islam give it to them from 1400 years and there is a lot of things we muslim consider it as humilation to women but you guys are used to it so you cant see it(like looking at her body,sex before marriage,porn movies,....etc)
but i know its hard after 8 or 9 years of thinking that muslim women are being opressed to change your mind in a thread it will take some time and i will be here for any questions