RE: Is free will real?
December 23, 2014 at 12:12 pm
(This post was last modified: December 23, 2014 at 12:30 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Seeing as how close we are I don't think it's much of a projection. Apes sense a shiny red car, it's unlikely that monkeys will miss it.
"The shiny red thing" is a ferrari. They're throwing feces at it, in your example...so clearly it works and exists in both of our contexts, the car's existence doesn't depend upon any "human context" in the same way that the existence of a termite mound doesn't depend on a "termite context".
RE: that question.
Seems to be. Our senses seem to be referring to something external, the senses of other creatures seem to be referring to something external. Our senses often align where we would expect them to and differ where we would expect them to. The idea of the thing isn't the thing....commenting upon our idea or experience of something won't actually alter whatever that something is, whatever the idea is in reference to. I'd like to imagine my way into a mansion..and maybe a harem - but you can imagine how that's going to turn out. My little house wont sprout an east wing...and my wife won't be bringing any concubines to dinner. If I redefined my house to be a mansion and my wife to be a harem - I'll still have the same house and the same wife. If there weren't a reality independent of the conceptualization of a living thing then where/what would those living things be floating/in to come up with such concepts in the first place?
(I just have to get this out...you realize that this line of thought is basically rephrasing the tree in a forest question, right? Are my answers all that surprising? Of course the car exists whether or not someone is standing there looking at it or thinking about it. In the same way, the tree makes a sound, regardless of whether or not anyone is there to observe it. These things aren't as complicated as our discussion would imply. If we have to -make them complicated- to squeeze in some free willin magic, I'm calling shenanigans. Can you discuss free will without first mooting all experience? Is there some explanation of free will that doesn't rest upon the pillars that have led you to conclude that apple pie must not exist, if free will does not exist? On that last note.....if apple pie and free will are even remotely in the same boat - I'm issuing a challenge. I will bake you an applie pie, from scratch. I will get a picture of me holding the pie and a newspaper. In return, I expect to see you with a handful of free will. Or can we agree that some of your comparisons might be sloppy? Cars, moms, pies...I'll give you comfort, and liberty...that's a little harder to pin down...but you've jumped the shark on at least 50% of this Benny, and that's not a promising stat.
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"The shiny red thing" is a ferrari. They're throwing feces at it, in your example...so clearly it works and exists in both of our contexts, the car's existence doesn't depend upon any "human context" in the same way that the existence of a termite mound doesn't depend on a "termite context".
RE: that question.
Seems to be. Our senses seem to be referring to something external, the senses of other creatures seem to be referring to something external. Our senses often align where we would expect them to and differ where we would expect them to. The idea of the thing isn't the thing....commenting upon our idea or experience of something won't actually alter whatever that something is, whatever the idea is in reference to. I'd like to imagine my way into a mansion..and maybe a harem - but you can imagine how that's going to turn out. My little house wont sprout an east wing...and my wife won't be bringing any concubines to dinner. If I redefined my house to be a mansion and my wife to be a harem - I'll still have the same house and the same wife. If there weren't a reality independent of the conceptualization of a living thing then where/what would those living things be floating/in to come up with such concepts in the first place?
(I just have to get this out...you realize that this line of thought is basically rephrasing the tree in a forest question, right? Are my answers all that surprising? Of course the car exists whether or not someone is standing there looking at it or thinking about it. In the same way, the tree makes a sound, regardless of whether or not anyone is there to observe it. These things aren't as complicated as our discussion would imply. If we have to -make them complicated- to squeeze in some free willin magic, I'm calling shenanigans. Can you discuss free will without first mooting all experience? Is there some explanation of free will that doesn't rest upon the pillars that have led you to conclude that apple pie must not exist, if free will does not exist? On that last note.....if apple pie and free will are even remotely in the same boat - I'm issuing a challenge. I will bake you an applie pie, from scratch. I will get a picture of me holding the pie and a newspaper. In return, I expect to see you with a handful of free will. Or can we agree that some of your comparisons might be sloppy? Cars, moms, pies...I'll give you comfort, and liberty...that's a little harder to pin down...but you've jumped the shark on at least 50% of this Benny, and that's not a promising stat.
)
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