Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: June 5, 2024, 1:49 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
WTF???
#22
RE: WTF???
(August 28, 2010 at 5:23 pm)Tiberius Wrote:
(August 28, 2010 at 4:06 pm)AngryBiker Wrote: Atheists, and the un-American Criminal Liberties Union in particular, seem to spend a great deal of time and energy fighting things like recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance and public prayer.
Will somebody please tell me where in the Constitution it states that there shall be freedom FROM religion? I don't get it. The Constitution simply states that Congress shall establish no State religion.
Justice David Souter concluded that "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion." in the 1994 Supreme Court Case Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet.

Source: Board_of_Education_of_Kiryas_Joel_Village_School_District_v._Grumet

The Pledge of Allegiance mentioning God is a violation since it contains a religious concept over a non-religious one (and by the way, the original pledge wasn't a violation...Congress added "under God" in the 50s). Public prayer (as in prayer at official public meetings) is a violation since it promotes one religion over another (as well as over irreligion).

The constitution has to be interpreted, and the Supreme Court has interpreted it to mean that not only can Congress establish a state religion, but that the government cannot hold one religion over another, or religion in general over irreligion.

If atheists and the ACLU were actually trying to impose their beliefs on others, we wouldn't be getting rid of religious prayers; we'd be forcing people to use our own. We aren't asking people to pledge allegiance to "science, reason, & skepticism", and we aren't asking schools to teach that God doesn't exist. All we are asking is for public offices to keep out of the "God" debate; and that applies to atheists just as much as it does to the religious.

THANK YOU, Adrian. At last, a civil reply. I concur that no religion should be held over any other. My personal belief is that the 'revealed' religions are all bull$hlt and I strongly resent the efforts of the leaders of these cults to control the political arena in this country. I do not, however, fell threatened by the Pledge (yes, I acknowledge that the phrase "under God' was added in 1954) or public prayer by those who choose to indulge. Why do atheists choose so vehemently to impinge upon the 1st Amendment rights of the religious people in this country?

The Founding Fathers believed in a Creator. America was founded on the desire for freedom of religion, not from it. I disagree with you that the Constitution needs to be interpreted. It says what it says. On this point, you and I will have to agree to disagree. I don't give a phuc what David Souter or anyone else said. In My Not So Humble Opinion, he's wrong. And opinion is all we're really talking about here. If you read the Federalist Papers and other precedent documents, the intent of the Founding Fathers is quite clear.

If atheists are not trying to impose their beliefs upon others, why can't you just leave it alone? I guess that was the point of my original question.

BTW, it has been said that the only difference between a deist and an atheist is 3 letters.

Reply



Messages In This Thread
WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 28, 2010 at 4:06 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Entropist - August 28, 2010 at 4:30 pm
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 28, 2010 at 9:08 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Entropist - August 28, 2010 at 9:31 pm
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 11:35 am
RE: WTF??? - by Paul the Human - August 29, 2010 at 11:40 am
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 30, 2010 at 10:24 am
RE: WTF??? - by Eilonnwy - August 30, 2010 at 10:33 am
RE: WTF??? - by Tiberius - August 30, 2010 at 12:06 pm
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 30, 2010 at 8:40 am
RE: WTF??? - by Entropist - August 30, 2010 at 2:37 pm
RE: WTF??? - by LastPoet - August 28, 2010 at 4:35 pm
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 9:49 am
RE: WTF??? - by Tiberius - August 29, 2010 at 9:56 am
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 10:15 am
RE: WTF??? - by Tiberius - August 29, 2010 at 10:23 am
RE: WTF??? - by Tiberius - August 28, 2010 at 5:23 pm
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 9:04 am
RE: WTF??? - by chasm - August 29, 2010 at 9:07 am
RE: WTF??? - by Zen Badger - August 28, 2010 at 8:47 pm
RE: WTF??? - by padraic - August 28, 2010 at 8:59 pm
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 28, 2010 at 9:33 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Entropist - August 28, 2010 at 9:40 pm
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 7:52 am
RE: WTF??? - by Entropist - August 29, 2010 at 8:47 am
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 9:15 am
RE: WTF??? - by Entropist - August 29, 2010 at 12:54 am
RE: WTF??? - by LastPoet - August 28, 2010 at 9:15 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Tiberius - August 28, 2010 at 9:31 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Minimalist - August 28, 2010 at 9:31 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Tiberius - August 28, 2010 at 9:40 pm
RE: WTF??? - by chasm - August 28, 2010 at 11:29 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Minimalist - August 28, 2010 at 10:33 pm
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 12:02 pm
RE: WTF??? - by padraic - August 28, 2010 at 11:37 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Shell B - August 29, 2010 at 12:25 am
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 11:13 am
RE: WTF??? - by Shell B - August 29, 2010 at 5:38 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Entropist - August 29, 2010 at 9:12 am
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 9:21 am
RE: WTF??? - by chasm - August 29, 2010 at 9:37 am
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 9:59 am
RE: WTF??? - by chasm - August 29, 2010 at 10:08 am
RE: WTF??? - by Tiberius - August 29, 2010 at 9:48 am
RE: WTF??? - by Paul the Human - August 29, 2010 at 9:54 am
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 10:02 am
RE: WTF??? - by Entropist - August 29, 2010 at 9:59 am
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 10:46 am
RE: WTF??? - by Paul the Human - August 29, 2010 at 10:50 am
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 11:16 am
RE: WTF??? - by Entropist - August 29, 2010 at 11:57 am
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 12:06 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Entropist - August 29, 2010 at 11:15 am
RE: WTF??? - by Paul the Human - August 29, 2010 at 9:17 am
RE: WTF??? - by Tiberius - August 29, 2010 at 10:12 am
RE: WTF??? - by Entropist - August 29, 2010 at 10:45 am
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 30, 2010 at 9:24 am
RE: WTF??? - by Eilonnwy - August 30, 2010 at 9:26 am
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 30, 2010 at 9:34 am
RE: WTF??? - by Zen Badger - August 30, 2010 at 9:37 am
RE: WTF??? - by Tiberius - August 30, 2010 at 9:57 am
RE: WTF??? - by Paul the Human - August 29, 2010 at 10:15 am
RE: WTF??? - by Tiberius - August 29, 2010 at 11:22 am
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 11:43 am
RE: WTF??? - by chasm - August 29, 2010 at 11:25 am
RE: WTF??? - by Tiberius - August 29, 2010 at 12:00 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Paul the Human - August 29, 2010 at 12:04 pm
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 29, 2010 at 1:09 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Tiberius - August 29, 2010 at 12:05 pm
RE: WTF??? - by leo-rcc - August 29, 2010 at 2:35 pm
RE: WTF??? - by LastPoet - August 29, 2010 at 5:27 pm
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 30, 2010 at 10:42 am
RE: WTF??? - by Eilonnwy - August 30, 2010 at 10:47 am
RE: WTF??? - by LastPoet - August 30, 2010 at 10:52 am
RE: WTF??? - by Scarface - August 29, 2010 at 5:41 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Tiberius - August 29, 2010 at 5:50 pm
RE: WTF??? - by padraic - August 29, 2010 at 7:14 pm
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 30, 2010 at 8:52 am
RE: WTF??? - by Scarface - August 29, 2010 at 7:34 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Shell B - August 30, 2010 at 1:12 am
RE: WTF??? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 30, 2010 at 3:36 am
RE: WTF??? - by Entropist - August 30, 2010 at 4:21 am
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 30, 2010 at 9:53 am
RE: WTF??? - by Eilonnwy - August 30, 2010 at 8:51 am
RE: WTF??? - by Scarface - August 30, 2010 at 8:52 am
RE: WTF??? - by Eilonnwy - August 30, 2010 at 8:56 am
RE: WTF??? - by AngryBiker - August 30, 2010 at 9:28 am
RE: WTF??? - by Eilonnwy - August 30, 2010 at 9:31 am
RE: WTF??? - by Eilonnwy - August 30, 2010 at 9:44 am
RE: WTF??? - by Eilonnwy - August 30, 2010 at 9:58 am
RE: WTF??? - by Tiberius - August 30, 2010 at 10:02 am
RE: WTF??? - by Paul the Human - August 30, 2010 at 10:31 am
RE: WTF??? - by Scarface - August 30, 2010 at 10:32 am
RE: WTF??? - by Eilonnwy - August 30, 2010 at 10:37 am
RE: WTF??? - by LastPoet - August 30, 2010 at 10:45 am
RE: WTF??? - by Scarface - August 30, 2010 at 10:54 am
RE: WTF??? - by Eilonnwy - August 30, 2010 at 11:04 am
RE: WTF??? - by leo-rcc - August 30, 2010 at 10:38 am
RE: WTF??? - by LastPoet - August 30, 2010 at 11:06 am
RE: WTF??? - by RachelSkates - August 30, 2010 at 2:41 pm
RE: WTF??? - by LastPoet - August 30, 2010 at 2:53 pm
RE: WTF??? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 30, 2010 at 3:19 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Entropist - August 30, 2010 at 3:07 pm
RE: WTF??? - by Zen Badger - August 31, 2010 at 6:25 am



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)