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Atheist Forums › Community › Religion › Islam v
General argument for Islam.

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General argument for Islam.
Mystic Offline
Banned
Religious Views: Shiite Muslim Twelver
Posts: 8214
Threads: 394
Joined: November 2, 2011
Reputation: 44
#256
RE: General argument for Islam.
April 6, 2015 at 5:46 pm
(April 6, 2015 at 5:41 pm)Rhythm Wrote: That -is- the dilemma....jesus christ.  How can that wisdom be exalted...there are plenty of things that are true regardless of the existence of a god, plenty of wisdom that does not hinge upon the truth  of your favorite bedtime storiy...certainly those things must be the "exalted wisdoms"?

You are not understanding. But this is a shortcoming on my part. Moses himself didn't think he can explain everything thoroughly and asked God help him with his brother Aeron because he was better in speech and conveying those truths. 

So who am I? I am no where near the intelligence of Moses and so how can I blame you for not understanding me. I blame myself. 
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Atheist Forums › Community › Religion › Islam v
General argument for Islam.

Messages In This Thread
General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:07 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:45 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:54 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 8:06 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 8:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 8:47 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 8:49 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 9:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 10:38 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 10:54 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 10:58 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:06 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 12:34 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 12:57 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Angrboda - April 3, 2015 at 7:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 8:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 3, 2015 at 8:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 8:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 3, 2015 at 10:17 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeadChannel - March 26, 2015 at 7:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - March 26, 2015 at 7:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - March 26, 2015 at 7:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 8:30 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 8:56 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 8:36 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeadChannel - March 26, 2015 at 8:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 9:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 3:07 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 3:14 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - April 3, 2015 at 12:09 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 9:54 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 10:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by JuliaL - March 26, 2015 at 10:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - March 27, 2015 at 4:29 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 3:19 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 1:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 5:54 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 6:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 6:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 29, 2015 at 1:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 29, 2015 at 1:56 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 29, 2015 at 2:02 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 29, 2015 at 2:16 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - March 27, 2015 at 4:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by downbeatplumb - March 27, 2015 at 5:04 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Lucanus - March 27, 2015 at 5:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 27, 2015 at 8:02 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Lucanus - March 27, 2015 at 8:41 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - March 27, 2015 at 8:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by JuliaL - March 27, 2015 at 9:15 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 27, 2015 at 2:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 27, 2015 at 5:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - March 27, 2015 at 6:05 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 27, 2015 at 6:58 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Joods - March 27, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by JuliaL - March 27, 2015 at 9:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Joods - March 27, 2015 at 11:44 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Desert Diva - March 27, 2015 at 7:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 27, 2015 at 8:18 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - March 27, 2015 at 11:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 1:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 8:15 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 28, 2015 at 8:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 8:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 28, 2015 at 9:05 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Desert Diva - March 28, 2015 at 12:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 12:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Desert Diva - March 28, 2015 at 1:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 3:07 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 28, 2015 at 1:33 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - March 29, 2015 at 6:07 am
q - by Cheerful Charlie - March 29, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 29, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - March 29, 2015 at 2:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 2, 2015 at 4:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 2, 2015 at 4:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 2, 2015 at 4:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 2, 2015 at 7:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 2, 2015 at 7:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 7:19 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 3, 2015 at 7:39 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 3, 2015 at 8:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 2, 2015 at 4:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 2, 2015 at 4:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 2, 2015 at 5:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cato - April 2, 2015 at 6:07 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 2, 2015 at 7:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 3, 2015 at 2:08 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 10:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 3, 2015 at 8:34 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 6:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 3, 2015 at 10:33 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 10:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 3, 2015 at 5:57 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 10:44 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 3, 2015 at 10:47 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:07 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:13 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:16 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:30 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:35 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:36 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:41 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:45 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - April 3, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 12:34 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - April 3, 2015 at 1:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 3, 2015 at 6:21 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - April 3, 2015 at 9:09 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 9:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by CapnAwesome - April 3, 2015 at 10:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 3, 2015 at 11:19 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - April 3, 2015 at 11:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 4:43 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 8:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 12:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 4, 2015 at 1:09 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 1:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 1:53 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 2:25 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:40 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 4:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 4, 2015 at 1:45 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 1:55 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:00 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 4, 2015 at 4:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 2:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 2:37 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:50 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 2:52 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:53 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 4, 2015 at 10:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - April 4, 2015 at 4:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 5:19 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 4, 2015 at 5:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 6:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 4, 2015 at 7:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 6:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 4, 2015 at 5:44 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cato - April 4, 2015 at 6:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 4, 2015 at 7:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 6:52 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 6:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 5, 2015 at 3:58 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 7:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 7:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 4, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 7:32 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 7:58 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 7:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 8:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 8:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 4, 2015 at 8:36 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 8:37 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 8:49 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 9:43 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 9:52 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:02 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:08 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:15 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:19 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:25 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 10:08 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:35 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:44 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 11:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 11:05 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 5, 2015 at 1:14 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 4:46 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 4:59 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 6:09 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 5, 2015 at 12:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:02 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 5, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:30 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 5, 2015 at 2:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 9:45 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 9:51 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 9:58 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - April 5, 2015 at 10:05 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 10:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 10:57 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 10:35 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 11:01 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 11:06 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 11:29 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:12 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 4:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 1:40 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 11:07 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 12:47 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Angrboda - April 5, 2015 at 1:08 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 1:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:43 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 1:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 2:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 2:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 5:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 2:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 5, 2015 at 2:36 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 2:43 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 3:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 3:25 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 3:35 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 4:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 4:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 4:30 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 7:50 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 8:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 10:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 4:50 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 5, 2015 at 8:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 6, 2015 at 4:57 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 5:09 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 7:01 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 6, 2015 at 5:14 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 6, 2015 at 5:24 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 6, 2015 at 5:15 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 8:11 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 8:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 8:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 6, 2015 at 9:34 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 12:00 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 6, 2015 at 8:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 9:08 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 12:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 1:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - April 6, 2015 at 9:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 12:05 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 1:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 5:40 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 5:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 5:53 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 6, 2015 at 5:55 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:58 pm
General argument for Islam. - by Etrius - April 19, 2015 at 2:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 7:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 3:37 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 19, 2015 at 8:00 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 8:10 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 19, 2015 at 1:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 4:09 pm
General argument for Islam. - by Etrius - April 19, 2015 at 1:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 2:51 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 19, 2015 at 4:02 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 4:08 pm

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