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A rational explanation for hell?
#18
RE: A rational explanation for hell?
There is no defence for Christianity here. (see Bradley v. Craig, from which I selectively quote below):

Proposition 1. God is omnipotent, omniscient, perfectly good, just, righteous, merciful, and loving.
Proposition 2. God will torture the majority of humans eternally in hell for the sin of unbelief, whether or not they have heard Jesus' name.

These would lead one to believe god does not exist. Apologists try to reconcile this with:

Proposition 3. God has actualized a world containing an optimal balance between saved and unsaved.
Proposition 4. There is no possible world inhabited by creatures with free will in which all persons freely receive Christ.

In other words we don't know gods master plan and to save the most people he can, most of us get 'hot needles in eyes etc'.

But this is easily dismissed by:

Proposition 5. There is a possible a world which is inhabited by creatures with free will, all of whom freely receive god

Apparently god has done this before in eden, post flood earth and heaven. So god could do it, but doesn't bother to

Furthermore. Proposition 3 is flawed because as an ominpotent being, the proeprties of god described below are inconsistent

P1. A perfectly good being would not torture anyone for any period whatever, however brief.
P2. A just being wouldn't punish someone eternally for the sins committed during a brief lifetime but would proportion the punishment to the offense.
P3. A righteous being would not punish someone eternally for unavoidable lack of belief.
P4. A merciful being would not be eternally unforgiving to those who have offended it.
P5. A loving being would not bring about and perpetuate the suffering of those that it loves.

"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - September 15, 2010 at 9:23 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Skipper - September 15, 2010 at 9:28 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by theophilus - September 15, 2010 at 1:03 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Zen Badger - September 15, 2010 at 9:31 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Judas BentHer - July 19, 2011 at 11:25 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by DeistPaladin - September 15, 2010 at 9:34 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - September 15, 2010 at 9:37 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 19, 2011 at 10:40 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Darwinian - July 20, 2011 at 5:11 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 20, 2011 at 7:37 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Darwinian - July 20, 2011 at 7:48 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Faith No More - July 20, 2011 at 8:20 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - July 21, 2011 at 4:25 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by lrh9 - September 15, 2010 at 9:44 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - September 15, 2010 at 9:55 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by lrh9 - September 15, 2010 at 9:59 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - September 15, 2010 at 10:05 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by lrh9 - September 15, 2010 at 10:22 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - September 15, 2010 at 11:06 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by chatpilot - September 15, 2010 at 10:01 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Watson - September 15, 2010 at 12:09 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - September 15, 2010 at 12:31 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Godschild - September 17, 2010 at 12:55 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - September 17, 2010 at 4:56 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by tackattack - September 15, 2010 at 12:39 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Skipper - September 15, 2010 at 1:17 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Captain Scarlet - September 15, 2010 at 1:27 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by tackattack - September 15, 2010 at 1:29 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Skipper - September 15, 2010 at 2:21 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 19, 2011 at 11:10 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Captain Scarlet - September 16, 2010 at 6:43 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by tackattack - September 15, 2010 at 3:32 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Skipper - September 15, 2010 at 3:44 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - September 15, 2010 at 6:00 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by chasm - September 15, 2010 at 6:08 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by theVOID - September 15, 2010 at 6:20 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by HeyItsZeus - September 15, 2010 at 8:19 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Entropist - September 15, 2010 at 8:13 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 19, 2011 at 11:32 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Faith No More - July 20, 2011 at 5:52 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by anonymous108 - January 24, 2014 at 9:32 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by krazedkat - September 15, 2010 at 8:47 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Anymouse - July 20, 2011 at 5:20 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by tackattack - September 15, 2010 at 8:09 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by tackattack - September 15, 2010 at 8:32 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by solja247 - September 15, 2010 at 8:38 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Skipper - September 16, 2010 at 4:10 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by solja247 - September 15, 2010 at 8:50 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Entropist - September 15, 2010 at 9:01 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by tackattack - September 15, 2010 at 10:48 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Entropist - September 15, 2010 at 11:30 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by krazedkat - September 15, 2010 at 11:32 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by blood_pardon - September 16, 2010 at 1:30 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Welsh cake - September 16, 2010 at 5:55 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by tackattack - September 16, 2010 at 6:56 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Skipper - September 16, 2010 at 7:09 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by tackattack - September 16, 2010 at 9:51 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Skipper - September 16, 2010 at 10:07 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by tackattack - September 16, 2010 at 10:46 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by tackattack - September 17, 2010 at 11:52 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Welsh cake - September 17, 2010 at 3:02 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by blood_pardon - September 20, 2010 at 1:38 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - September 20, 2010 at 8:48 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Skipper - September 20, 2010 at 4:28 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by blood_pardon - September 20, 2010 at 4:56 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Skipper - September 20, 2010 at 5:35 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Rayaan - September 20, 2010 at 5:42 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by blood_pardon - September 20, 2010 at 5:48 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Skipper - September 20, 2010 at 5:59 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Entropist - September 20, 2010 at 8:54 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by blood_pardon - September 20, 2010 at 7:23 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Skipper - September 20, 2010 at 7:27 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Soyouz - September 20, 2010 at 2:23 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Captain Scarlet - September 20, 2010 at 2:56 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by leo-rcc - September 20, 2010 at 3:00 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Soyouz - September 20, 2010 at 3:01 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by leo-rcc - September 20, 2010 at 3:03 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Soyouz - September 20, 2010 at 3:25 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by blood_pardon - September 20, 2010 at 4:00 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Soyouz - September 20, 2010 at 4:27 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by chatpilot - September 20, 2010 at 4:36 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by blood_pardon - September 20, 2010 at 4:45 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by tackattack - September 20, 2010 at 10:39 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Anomalocaris - September 27, 2010 at 5:12 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by tackattack - September 27, 2010 at 12:28 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - September 27, 2010 at 6:27 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Minimalist - July 19, 2011 at 11:05 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Kayenneh - July 20, 2011 at 3:56 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Welsh cake - July 20, 2011 at 7:40 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 20, 2011 at 8:06 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Darwinian - July 20, 2011 at 8:17 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 20, 2011 at 8:26 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Faith No More - July 20, 2011 at 8:41 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Mad Militant - July 20, 2011 at 9:00 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 20, 2011 at 9:17 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Mad Militant - July 20, 2011 at 9:48 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Faith No More - July 21, 2011 at 6:20 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Autumnlicious - July 20, 2011 at 7:59 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Mad Militant - July 20, 2011 at 8:16 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Minimalist - July 20, 2011 at 9:25 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 24, 2011 at 6:39 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Judas BentHer - July 20, 2011 at 10:56 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Judas BentHer - July 21, 2011 at 3:30 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by CharlieMilles - July 21, 2011 at 4:44 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Autumnlicious - July 21, 2011 at 2:43 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by BethK - July 21, 2011 at 4:22 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Judas BentHer - July 21, 2011 at 5:32 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Welsh cake - July 22, 2011 at 5:35 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Judas BentHer - July 22, 2011 at 12:43 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - July 22, 2011 at 1:08 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Judas BentHer - July 22, 2011 at 1:28 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - July 22, 2011 at 1:37 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by BethK - July 24, 2011 at 12:12 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - July 25, 2011 at 1:23 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by DeistPaladin - July 25, 2011 at 8:29 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 25, 2011 at 7:39 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by DeistPaladin - July 25, 2011 at 8:56 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Kayenneh - July 24, 2011 at 1:19 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 24, 2011 at 9:35 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Judas BentHer - July 24, 2011 at 10:41 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - July 25, 2011 at 8:58 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Godschild - July 25, 2011 at 1:15 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by DeistPaladin - July 25, 2011 at 1:23 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - July 25, 2011 at 1:36 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Faith No More - July 25, 2011 at 2:32 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Minimalist - July 25, 2011 at 2:10 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 26, 2011 at 1:16 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Minimalist - July 27, 2011 at 2:33 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - July 25, 2011 at 10:52 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Godschild - July 26, 2011 at 1:22 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Faith No More - July 26, 2011 at 1:32 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - July 28, 2011 at 1:33 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Godschild - July 28, 2011 at 2:59 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - July 28, 2011 at 3:34 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Godschild - July 29, 2011 at 1:40 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by edk - July 29, 2011 at 1:47 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - July 29, 2011 at 6:27 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - July 26, 2011 at 9:35 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Godschild - July 27, 2011 at 1:26 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 26, 2011 at 2:00 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - July 26, 2011 at 8:57 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 28, 2011 at 9:12 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - July 28, 2011 at 9:06 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Minimalist - July 28, 2011 at 4:02 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - July 28, 2011 at 4:14 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 31, 2011 at 4:07 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 31, 2011 at 4:35 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - August 1, 2011 at 3:30 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Cinjin - August 1, 2011 at 3:48 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by edk - July 29, 2011 at 2:42 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Captain Scarlet - August 14, 2011 at 1:26 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Minimalist - July 31, 2011 at 4:23 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 31, 2011 at 6:50 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 31, 2011 at 7:24 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - July 31, 2011 at 7:26 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Minimalist - July 31, 2011 at 11:07 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - July 31, 2011 at 8:47 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - July 31, 2011 at 8:58 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by edk - July 31, 2011 at 10:17 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Faith No More - July 31, 2011 at 11:15 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 2, 2011 at 7:08 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Faith No More - August 3, 2011 at 12:52 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 12, 2011 at 8:41 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Faith No More - August 12, 2011 at 11:50 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Cinjin - August 12, 2011 at 11:58 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Faith No More - August 13, 2011 at 12:01 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 14, 2011 at 9:13 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Faith No More - August 15, 2011 at 1:01 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Jackalope - August 15, 2011 at 5:41 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 17, 2011 at 10:27 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Jackalope - August 18, 2011 at 1:48 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - August 1, 2011 at 4:01 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by fr0d0 - August 1, 2011 at 6:49 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Ace Otana - August 1, 2011 at 7:42 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by fr0d0 - August 1, 2011 at 10:59 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2011 at 10:09 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - August 1, 2011 at 10:44 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 2, 2011 at 7:59 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 14, 2011 at 9:53 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 14, 2011 at 10:38 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - August 14, 2011 at 11:21 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by padraic - August 15, 2011 at 1:16 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by KichigaiNeko - August 15, 2011 at 6:24 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 15, 2011 at 8:40 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by KichigaiNeko - August 15, 2011 at 8:45 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Welsh cake - August 15, 2011 at 1:09 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Captain Scarlet - August 15, 2011 at 2:34 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 17, 2011 at 10:06 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - August 15, 2011 at 10:32 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Jackalope - August 16, 2011 at 3:43 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 17, 2011 at 10:13 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 17, 2011 at 10:44 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 17, 2011 at 10:52 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 17, 2011 at 10:59 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 17, 2011 at 11:03 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - August 18, 2011 at 12:03 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Minimalist - August 18, 2011 at 1:05 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 18, 2011 at 11:47 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 18, 2011 at 8:11 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Minimalist - August 18, 2011 at 12:09 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 18, 2011 at 12:13 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Minimalist - August 18, 2011 at 12:27 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 18, 2011 at 12:33 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 18, 2011 at 8:29 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 18, 2011 at 9:00 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 18, 2011 at 9:09 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 18, 2011 at 9:18 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by BethK - August 18, 2011 at 9:29 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - August 18, 2011 at 9:09 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 18, 2011 at 9:19 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 18, 2011 at 9:31 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 18, 2011 at 9:38 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 18, 2011 at 9:47 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 18, 2011 at 9:53 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 18, 2011 at 10:36 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Faith No More - August 18, 2011 at 11:00 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 18, 2011 at 11:28 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Faith No More - August 18, 2011 at 11:51 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 19, 2011 at 7:30 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - August 19, 2011 at 1:39 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Captain Scarlet - August 19, 2011 at 5:11 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - August 18, 2011 at 10:39 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 18, 2011 at 10:46 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - August 18, 2011 at 10:47 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 18, 2011 at 11:02 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - August 18, 2011 at 11:16 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 19, 2011 at 8:49 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Jackalope - August 19, 2011 at 1:41 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 19, 2011 at 7:46 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Captain Scarlet - August 19, 2011 at 9:38 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 19, 2011 at 7:44 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 19, 2011 at 7:54 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - August 20, 2011 at 12:12 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 20, 2011 at 12:58 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 20, 2011 at 1:11 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 21, 2011 at 5:48 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - August 21, 2011 at 12:12 am
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by The Grand Nudger - August 21, 2011 at 6:26 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 21, 2011 at 6:53 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - August 21, 2011 at 11:27 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by C Rod - August 22, 2011 at 7:46 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Epimethean - August 22, 2011 at 8:51 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Darkstar - January 24, 2014 at 12:53 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Cinjin - January 24, 2014 at 4:47 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Minimalist - January 24, 2014 at 5:47 pm
RE: A rational explanation for hell? - by Mudhammam - January 26, 2014 at 9:08 am

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