Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: May 31, 2024, 10:27 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Ask A Historian
#26
RE: Ask A Historian
(May 17, 2015 at 8:28 pm)JuliaL Wrote: Were Caligula and/or Nero as nasty as painted or were they smeared by later writers?

Was it Elvis or the CIA that fired from the grassy knoll?
(You don't have to answer the second one, I already know.)

Ooh, Julia, I love you.  Magnificent question.  Maybe hard to answer within the confines of a message board but I'll try.  Refer above to earlier answer about writers having an agenda and hold the thought.

Now, to be clear, literacy in antiquity was the province of the elites.  Estimates in Greco-Roman history are that 90% of the population were illiterate.  But of the remaining 10% most had only a degree of functional literacy which enabled them to perform commercial tasks such as inventory, shipping, receiving, etc.  Only the top few percent could have read complex books on philosophy or what passed for Natural Science or History.  These works were also written by members of the same class so that is the story which we get to hear.  To your two examples let us add Herod the Great.  In all 3 cases what we have written about them was written by their class enemies.

The Julio-Claudian dynasty were the heirs to G. Julius Caesar's victory.  He was one of the Populares (Popular Party) and he defeated the Optimates (Best Men) led by Pompey the Great.  One of the bulwarks of Julio-Claudian power was maintaining the good will of the populace of Rome itself.  There were no uprisings against the Julio-Claudians because they took care of the people.  Now, as to be expected, it was the elites who paid the freight for their largesse.  Augustus and Tiberius through careful stewardship of the public funds left Gaius (Caligula) a bulging treasury.  Caligula was hailed by the people as a son of Germanicus (his father was a brilliant military leader) but shortly after assuming the throne he was stricken by some sort of illness and when he was ill there was genuine consternation throughout the Empire.  Upon recovery he seems to have become somewhat eccentric but it is a question of how bad his derangement was.  The primary biographers are Suetonius and Dio and both lived long after Caligula.  Philo and Seneca, living at the time, have little to say on the subject of, say, incest with his sisters which Suetonius drools over.  Further, Caligula set the stage for his Uncle Claudius' successful invasion of Britain indicating that he was either capable of planning or hiring people who could.  Tales are told of Caligula executing political opponents and seizing their fortunes but the coup against him seems to have been pulled off by the Praetorian Guard. 

Nero suffered through the Great Fire of Rome and while he was at Antium (Anzio) near Naples when it happened he hurried back to Rome and took care of such of the population as he could.  The rebuilding of the city would cost money and that money came from the Senatorial and Equestrian classes because that's where the money was.  We see a little of this sort of thing today where the wealthy elites feel no desire whatsoever to contribute to the public welfare.  Nero did have a political battle with the Senate and he lost and committed suicide.  His successor, Galba, reportedly managed to piss off everyone and his reign lasted barely 7 months which gives some indication that Nero was doing something right by keeping the people on his side.

Herod the Great, the third of our examples, was not "Great" for anything except his ability to survive Roman civil war politics and his building programs. But we can assume that his building projects earned him the gratitude of the commons because he was providing work and therefore money...money which again would have come from the Upper Classes which in Judaea meant the priests and their hangers-on. As with the earlier two, we have no indication of any sort of popular rising against him, merely intrigues by the former Hasmonean rulers and the nobles who would have preferred one of their own to be king rather than Herod who was basically an Arab. 

So, you are correct to doubt what these later writers had to say.  They represent the injured parties.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 17, 2015 at 1:01 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by downbeatplumb - May 17, 2015 at 1:17 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 17, 2015 at 1:33 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Exian - May 17, 2015 at 1:22 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Mudhammam - May 18, 2015 at 5:36 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - May 18, 2015 at 8:41 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Longhorn - May 18, 2015 at 8:44 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Alex K - May 18, 2015 at 8:48 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Jenny A - May 20, 2015 at 4:00 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Alex K - May 17, 2015 at 1:37 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by downbeatplumb - May 17, 2015 at 1:42 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 17, 2015 at 1:48 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Aoi Magi - May 17, 2015 at 1:53 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by downbeatplumb - May 17, 2015 at 3:26 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - May 18, 2015 at 8:42 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cinjin - June 2, 2015 at 8:37 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 17, 2015 at 2:02 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by robvalue - May 17, 2015 at 3:33 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Alex K - May 17, 2015 at 3:48 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 17, 2015 at 3:55 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 17, 2015 at 3:55 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Alex K - May 17, 2015 at 4:06 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 17, 2015 at 3:54 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Dystopia - May 17, 2015 at 4:07 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 17, 2015 at 8:05 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by CapnAwesome - May 17, 2015 at 10:00 pm
Ask A Historian - by KUSA - May 17, 2015 at 4:25 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Angrboda - May 17, 2015 at 4:31 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Thumpalumpacus - May 17, 2015 at 4:47 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Nope - May 17, 2015 at 6:18 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 17, 2015 at 6:21 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by JuliaL - May 17, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 17, 2015 at 9:33 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by JuliaL - May 18, 2015 at 12:42 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by dahrling - May 17, 2015 at 9:06 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 17, 2015 at 9:42 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 17, 2015 at 9:36 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 18, 2015 at 3:02 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by JuliaL - May 18, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Nope - May 18, 2015 at 5:16 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 18, 2015 at 10:50 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Angrboda - May 18, 2015 at 11:40 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Mudhammam - May 19, 2015 at 1:34 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by LastPoet - May 18, 2015 at 5:48 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Whateverist - May 18, 2015 at 5:50 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Saxmoof - May 18, 2015 at 6:09 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Alex K - May 18, 2015 at 7:36 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 18, 2015 at 11:18 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by cocunningham - May 18, 2015 at 1:01 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by houseofcantor - September 19, 2015 at 7:28 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 19, 2015 at 7:45 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by houseofcantor - September 19, 2015 at 8:11 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Aractus - May 18, 2015 at 8:10 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - May 18, 2015 at 8:49 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Alex K - May 18, 2015 at 8:50 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - May 18, 2015 at 8:52 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Alex K - May 18, 2015 at 8:54 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - May 18, 2015 at 8:57 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - May 18, 2015 at 10:56 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 18, 2015 at 10:58 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - May 18, 2015 at 11:10 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 18, 2015 at 11:13 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - May 18, 2015 at 11:18 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 18, 2015 at 11:57 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Nope - May 18, 2015 at 11:48 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - May 18, 2015 at 12:00 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 18, 2015 at 12:08 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - May 18, 2015 at 12:36 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Nope - May 18, 2015 at 1:02 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 18, 2015 at 12:42 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 18, 2015 at 2:25 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Longhorn - May 18, 2015 at 12:53 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Alex K - May 18, 2015 at 1:41 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Dystopia - May 18, 2015 at 2:57 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 18, 2015 at 3:43 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Crossless1 - May 18, 2015 at 3:02 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 18, 2015 at 3:08 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 18, 2015 at 4:05 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 18, 2015 at 4:30 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 18, 2015 at 5:08 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 18, 2015 at 6:05 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Longhorn - May 18, 2015 at 6:09 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 18, 2015 at 6:11 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 18, 2015 at 9:26 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - May 18, 2015 at 8:39 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 19, 2015 at 12:27 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 19, 2015 at 2:03 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 20, 2015 at 2:02 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Dystopia - May 20, 2015 at 2:27 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 20, 2015 at 2:35 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 20, 2015 at 4:52 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 20, 2015 at 6:44 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 20, 2015 at 6:55 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 20, 2015 at 10:13 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 20, 2015 at 10:31 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 20, 2015 at 10:46 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 20, 2015 at 11:33 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 21, 2015 at 8:53 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 21, 2015 at 12:57 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 27, 2015 at 2:05 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 27, 2015 at 3:32 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 27, 2015 at 4:54 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 27, 2015 at 5:22 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 27, 2015 at 6:14 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by JuliaL - June 1, 2015 at 12:50 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - May 29, 2015 at 10:33 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - May 29, 2015 at 11:46 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Jenny A - June 2, 2015 at 11:25 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 2, 2015 at 6:45 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by JuliaL - June 2, 2015 at 7:35 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - June 2, 2015 at 10:45 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 2, 2015 at 7:57 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 2, 2015 at 9:53 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by downbeatplumb - June 12, 2015 at 1:21 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 2, 2015 at 11:05 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - June 2, 2015 at 11:24 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - June 2, 2015 at 11:27 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Jenny A - June 2, 2015 at 11:32 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 2, 2015 at 11:39 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - June 3, 2015 at 12:16 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 3, 2015 at 12:26 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by ignoramus - June 3, 2015 at 4:55 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 3, 2015 at 11:44 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - June 3, 2015 at 3:21 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Dystopia - June 3, 2015 at 4:16 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 3, 2015 at 5:33 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Dystopia - June 7, 2015 at 5:05 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 7, 2015 at 5:20 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Dystopia - June 7, 2015 at 7:37 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 7, 2015 at 7:48 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - June 7, 2015 at 10:24 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 7, 2015 at 11:32 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 8, 2015 at 6:31 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by abaris - June 8, 2015 at 7:14 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by ignoramus - June 8, 2015 at 8:13 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 8, 2015 at 8:29 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 10, 2015 at 10:09 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by ignoramus - June 11, 2015 at 1:18 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 12, 2015 at 1:53 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Longhorn - June 11, 2015 at 1:22 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by ignoramus - June 11, 2015 at 1:27 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - June 11, 2015 at 2:27 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by ignoramus - June 11, 2015 at 7:02 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - June 11, 2015 at 7:49 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Longhorn - June 12, 2015 at 2:35 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by ignoramus - June 12, 2015 at 2:51 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 12, 2015 at 1:24 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by downbeatplumb - June 12, 2015 at 1:31 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Marsellus Wallace - June 12, 2015 at 9:45 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 12, 2015 at 9:49 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 1:04 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Tonus - June 17, 2015 at 1:13 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 1:21 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Tonus - June 17, 2015 at 1:57 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 2:48 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Tonus - June 17, 2015 at 4:09 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Longhorn - June 17, 2015 at 4:03 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 17, 2015 at 4:25 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Iroscato - June 18, 2015 at 7:21 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - June 18, 2015 at 2:16 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 18, 2015 at 2:22 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Iroscato - June 18, 2015 at 7:43 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by ignoramus - June 18, 2015 at 6:40 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Clueless Morgan - June 18, 2015 at 10:17 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 18, 2015 at 2:28 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Clueless Morgan - June 18, 2015 at 4:08 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Longhorn - June 18, 2015 at 3:25 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Cyberman - June 18, 2015 at 3:39 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - June 18, 2015 at 3:45 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 18, 2015 at 4:16 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Dystopia - June 18, 2015 at 7:37 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Jenny A - June 18, 2015 at 7:58 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 22, 2015 at 12:37 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 18, 2015 at 8:36 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Clueless Morgan - June 22, 2015 at 10:15 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 22, 2015 at 12:52 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - June 30, 2015 at 2:22 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - July 2, 2015 at 7:03 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by paulpablo - July 2, 2015 at 7:18 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - July 2, 2015 at 8:11 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - July 17, 2015 at 12:59 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Longhorn - July 31, 2015 at 3:33 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Justtristo - July 19, 2015 at 2:45 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - July 19, 2015 at 6:52 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - July 20, 2015 at 2:00 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Justtristo - July 20, 2015 at 11:06 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - July 21, 2015 at 12:20 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - July 31, 2015 at 3:28 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - July 31, 2015 at 3:43 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Clueless Morgan - July 31, 2015 at 7:38 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - July 31, 2015 at 7:40 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - July 31, 2015 at 7:44 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Justtristo - August 18, 2015 at 10:57 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - August 18, 2015 at 11:36 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Sappho - September 7, 2015 at 4:59 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 7, 2015 at 7:23 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Sappho - September 8, 2015 at 7:07 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Gawdzilla - September 8, 2015 at 7:14 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 11, 2015 at 2:09 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 11, 2015 at 12:45 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Sappho - September 13, 2015 at 12:25 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Gawdzilla - September 13, 2015 at 12:28 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 14, 2015 at 2:37 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 14, 2015 at 8:00 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 19, 2015 at 5:05 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 18, 2015 at 7:11 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 19, 2015 at 1:13 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 19, 2015 at 2:54 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 19, 2015 at 11:53 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 19, 2015 at 5:54 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 19, 2015 at 7:24 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by BrokenQuill92 - September 19, 2015 at 6:29 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 19, 2015 at 7:33 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by BrokenQuill92 - September 19, 2015 at 6:30 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 19, 2015 at 7:34 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by BrokenQuill92 - September 19, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 19, 2015 at 7:47 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by BrokenQuill92 - September 19, 2015 at 7:32 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 19, 2015 at 7:49 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 19, 2015 at 8:21 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by vorlon13 - September 19, 2015 at 8:39 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by houseofcantor - September 20, 2015 at 5:34 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by vorlon13 - September 20, 2015 at 9:07 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by vorlon13 - September 20, 2015 at 9:50 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 20, 2015 at 10:46 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by BrokenQuill92 - September 26, 2015 at 4:00 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Pyrrho - September 26, 2015 at 11:28 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 26, 2015 at 11:35 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by BrokenQuill92 - September 26, 2015 at 4:01 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - September 26, 2015 at 11:51 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - October 8, 2015 at 4:46 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - November 16, 2016 at 1:50 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 16, 2016 at 2:38 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Thumpalumpacus - November 16, 2016 at 2:55 am
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - November 16, 2016 at 2:50 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 16, 2016 at 3:38 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - November 20, 2016 at 7:53 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by The Valkyrie - November 20, 2016 at 7:54 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 20, 2016 at 8:17 pm
RE: Ask A Historian - by Minimalist - November 20, 2016 at 9:59 pm



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)