What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[Catholic_Lady]

Agree to disagree about morality being subjective.

And I have talked to Atheists who do not believe morality is subjective, so I guess it just depends on the person.

I'm afraid that sort of agreement simply isn't possible between us.  You can choose to make claims and then balk at further requests for demonstration, but this is not "agreeing to disagree"...this is the shit and run...also been done, many times.  Atheists don;t have to believe anything in particular about morality, nor are they required to know what subjective morality -actually is- anymore than you are.  If you're an example...then we might expect plenty of them to simply be mistaken.

Fair enough...

I did tell you that it had little to do with atheism at the very outset...did I not?  That's the amusing bit, in any case, there's no shortage of options -other- than the commands of a god or the lines of an objective morality.  You're likely to have leveraged one yourself.  I would certainly hope that you're capable of it, since so many of us clearly are.

Things "depending on the person" is a wonderful description both of subjective morality, and why it is subjective, you understand, yeah?

So, what do you think about those pious (but misinformed) worshippers of the past?  Were they immoral when they acted upon their heartfelt convictions regarding the desires and commands of their god?

If they did something that is objectively immoral (like stone an adulterer, for example,) it remained immoral regardless of their beliefs about it. But as for judging whether they were or were not moral people, or whether they did or did not go to heaven, I cannot say for sure, and neither is it my place to do so. I do not know their hearts.

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What do you mean?

Precisely what I meant.

I am sorry, I did not understand you.