RE: Atheism, Evidence and the God-of-the-Gaps
June 16, 2015 at 8:30 am
(This post was last modified: June 16, 2015 at 8:34 am by Tonus.)
(June 14, 2015 at 9:24 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: Not for people who do know and understand him - to the degree that they are able in this life.That degree appears to be some combination of the Bible, the claims of others, and possibly some ambiguous "personal testimony from the spirit" which I've yet to see quantified. It leaves for a very loose and open interpretation that leaves us with the situation where a person is certain that the claims that support his belief are divine intervention, whereas those of others must be demonic in nature. I find that troubling.
Randy Carson Wrote:Why not? He did it at Fatima in 1917. There are photographs of the event online.Is there one in particular that strikes you as clear evidence of the hand of god in action?
Isolated incidents like this are also confusing. Why does god cause the sky to go a bit nuts on one afternoon so many years ago and then go back to even more obscure stuff like scuff marks on appliances or clouds shaped like angels or miracles that are indistinguishable from coincidence?
Randy Carson Wrote:It is not what He wants, I agree. But the fact that many may be lost does not prove that He has not implemented the best solution. All that we're really hearing here is YOUR preference that none be lost and your assignment of guilt to God for the fact that many might be.Yes, but don't you find that dissatisfying? God's plans don't seem very well thought-out, but maybe he's got some aces up his sleeve? And he thinks the best option is to see how many of us can stumble into the truth, instead of laying everything out clearly for us?
Randy Carson Wrote:If literally true, then all we can say about that is that they desired to be like God. And after they gained the knowledge of good and evil they were "impressed" by God enough to hide from him in fear because they knew they had done wrong.But god did not make enough of an impression on them to make them even think twice about breaking the one rule he'd given them. Did the devil really understand god's nature if he thought that he could be "like" god without repercussion? Or did he know and prefer death to continuing to be a minion? How did such a simple challenge ("god's a liar, the fruit is good") get Eve to go against god's command? Was she somehow unable to differentiate between the creator of all things and a talking serpent?
Randy Carson Wrote:With perfect knowledge, the angels chose freely to reject God's plan for the salvation of men through Jesus Christ. That rejection is simply an act of the will. Why does this suggest that God is not impressive? There are many examples in our own day of rulers of countries who have great wealth and power...but some men (rightly) refuse to serve them. With the might of the English monarchy behind him, Henry VIII could not convince Thomas More to betray his own beliefs. etc, etc.See above. We aren't referring to a human king with limited technology and culture. This is the almighty god and creator of the universe. Do you feel that if you were able to spend your life in his presence, you would reject him freely as an act of will? Imagine it, being an angel in heaven and able to directly witness the magnificence of god and his great wisdom and power. How long would it take for you to decide "meh, I'll take my chances with an earth woman"?
Randy Carson Wrote:A duel which God won handily, I might add.I'm wondering why he had to take part it in at all, much less be forced to turn the dial up just to get a few misguided humans to grudgingly acknowledge him.
Randy Carson Wrote:Or me might accept that "the unparalleled intellect in all of reality and a designer without equal" knows just how much we can handle without being coerced into acknowledging his existence.I don't get why people believe that it's somehow a bad thing for god to show us unambiguously that he is there. I have seen no reasoning that makes sense. Given his history as recounted in the Bible and given what's at stake, it seems utterly indefensible to think that this is a good idea, much less the best option available.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
-Stephen Jay Gould