What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[Catholic_Lady]

That's fine. The poster could have specified this. All this poster did was tell me how horrible it was to ever say that someone shouldn't act on their sexual impulses. I brought up pedophilia as an example of a scenario where I'm sure everyone here would agree that it would be appropriate to say someone shouldn't act on sexual impulses.

Fair enough.  It is kind of assumed around here though, since we have this kind of discussion all the time.  Of course I (and I believe 'we' on the forum) have big problems with non-consensual sex, so it never enters into the discussion when talking about homosexuality, because nothing about gay sex has anything to do with pedophilia or other non-consensual sex anymore than straight sex has to do with pedophilia.

I agree.

---

Catholicism does not condone molestation. Neither does it condone covering it up. The Catholics who molested children as well as those who covered it up were going against Church teaching.

There are bad people in every group. Catholics are no different.

Which ultimately brings us back to the issue of morality. They brushed abuse under the carpet for decades. There are some claimants that have been abused 50 years ago, but because they were orphans at that time, noone believed their claims or actively supressed their stories.

That's especially true for Ireland where the catholic church held enormous political power in the 50ies, 60ies and 70ies.

So they brushed it under the carpet to save face. That's not moral, that's simply political.

I agree. Those people acted immorally.

---

Albaris, I believe you have been misinformed:

http://www.themediareport.com/fast-facts/

---

Right, you bring up an apologist website to prove a point? Really?
The pope himself is speaking of 2 percent, which would mean about 8.800 priests being active pedophiles. Among them high ranking clergymen. Just yesterday we discussed the story of one being brought to trial in the Vatican for abuses he commited in the Dominican Republic when he was ambassador of the holy see there. Not to mention the massive amounts of child pornography on his computer. So a person like that could rise through the ranks and it's highly unlikely for him to have started his pedophile career just recently.
The main problem lies in the massive coverup that has been going on for decades.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/some...story.html

2% is 2% too many, I agree. But my point is that it is not an issue that is specific to Catholic priests. There are men from all career fields who are predators, and priests are actually closer to the bottom. Teachers are at the top, but I would never use this information to attack teachers or education in general.

---

Catholicism does not condone any of this behavior. In fact, it vehemently teaches against it.

By their fruits you shall know them.

I am well aware that Catholicism doesn't explicitly condone the behavior (already pointed out by FatAndFaithless), but the decades of abuse and subsequent shell game played with the perpetrators can only be evidence of tacit approval. It is clear that the RCC put the reputation of the church ahead of the safety and well being of the children in its care saying nothing of justice for those abused. The tu quoque defense that others do it too is rubbish; others are prosecuted and punished if found guilty. Offending priests in some cases have been given unsuspecting fresh flocks to infiltrate rather than turned over to civil authorities to allow due process to take its course.

The entire affair is morally repugnant. The dismissive hand waiving rationalizations that some provide in an attempt to maintain the moral authority of what can only be described as a criminal organization is repulsive. What should have happened is that all practicing Catholics should have immediately demanded a full disclosure and subsequent adherence to the idea that those charged with sufficient evidence would stand trial for their alleged misconduct in the jurisdictions where the crimes were said to have taken place. The fact that this still isn't happening combined with many of the devout making excuses for how the RCC has managed this is telling.  

It only took the RCC 350 years to exonerate Galileo, perhaps one should hold out hope.  

Very true. There are bad seeds in every group, and we certainly aren't exempt from that. No excuses.

---

Thank you all again for the discussion. I think it's time I take a much needed break and actually get some stuff done today.

Hope you all have a great day, and I'll see you back here maybe tomorrow!!