(June 20, 2015 at 10:20 pm)whateverist Wrote:(June 20, 2015 at 9:54 pm)Godschild Wrote: Seems to me most of you couldn't careless about the great gift of life you've been given. To the OP, God doesn't decide who goes to heaven or hell, each individual does that and God grants them their choice.
GC
Funny how that goes. From my side it looks as though Christians obsessed with heaven and hell in the 'next' life are the ones who couldn't care less about the great gift of life. If 'heaven' or 'hell' mean anything at all, they must refer to something you experience in the moment. The idea of an eternal heaven or hell which comes later just seems infantile.
It is funny how that goes. Here is an interesting set of verses that seem to indicate that it is not a matter of people choosing, but of God choosing who goes to heaven and who does not:
"For many are called, but few [are] chosen." (Matthew 22:14, KJV)
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." (Jeremiah 1:5 NIV)
"As soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, so that while seeing, they may see and not perceive, and while hearing, they may hear and not understand, otherwise they might return and be forgiven." (Mark 4:10-12, NASB)
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, ..." (Eph. 1:3-5, NASB)
"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." (Rom. 8:28-30, NASB)
"... but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; ..." (1Co. 2:7, NASB)
"For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur." (Act. 4:27-28, NASB)
Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. (Psa. 139:16, NASB)
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." (Romans 9:15-18, NIV)
"The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go." (Exodus 4:21, NIV)
"What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?" (Rom. 9:22-24, NIV)
"For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them (Ephesians 2:8-10, NKJ)
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." (Acts 13:48, ESV)
Courtesy of:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination
There have been many serious Christians who have believed that it is not a matter that people decide, but it is a matter that God decides, and they have some Biblical basis for their opinion.
Of course, if he wishes to argue about it, he should go seek out Christians who believe it. In my opinion, the whole question is a good deal of nonsense, since there is no heaven, no god, etc.
He also does not answer the question of the opening post, why god made the earth at all. But saying irrelevant crap is what Christians often do, so this should not surprise anyone.
And, of course, you are right, that these Christians who prate glibly about this life being a gift from God are often the ones who waste this "gift" instead of trying to live it well. When one's focus is on "the next life," one naturally gives this life less emphasis than someone who regards this as the only life.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
