(June 21, 2015 at 2:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:(June 21, 2015 at 1:27 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: So are you saying that humans can make moral choices without god?
You mean without believing in God? Yes. :-)
I have said this all along.
Indeed, but this is misleading again.
You admit that people can make moral choices without the Catholic Church, but a core reaching of the Catholic Church is that it is impossible to be moral as a characteristic without being a Catholic.
(June 21, 2015 at 2:06 pm)Pyrrho Wrote:(June 21, 2015 at 1:55 pm)Metis Wrote: Odd example to post Randy, considering Wilberforce was an Anglican and was slagged off by the Catholic Church.
The trajectory that made this possible was moving away from Catholicism. Still Christian, but certainly not Catholic.
Why not? It is all dishonest anyway. One must reject what the Bible and Jesus say in order to get to the idea that slavery is bad. It is only through the erosion of religious beliefs that a Christian can be an abolitionist.
Of course, it is a good thing that people are and have been getting away from the morality of the Bible. But it is completely dishonest to say that the Bible is the source of such improvements. But you are not arguing with someone who has any regard for the truth, so you ought not expect to hear such things from him.
Ah...Funnily enough I do have to disagree here (wow, this is bittersweet). I think it is impossible to believe the Roman Pontiff is infallible and to disagree with slavery but I don't actually think that actually extends to Protestantism (Orthodoxy suffers the same trap as Catholicism, but to a much lesser extent as their claims to infallibility are far less grandoise).
We know there was a serious reshuffle in what was good/bad between the OT and NT and several commands contained in the NT like "there is neither gentile or jew" can very easily be extended or reinterpreted to be against slavery. I don't have a problem with Protestants claiming that slavery is immoral, many of them freely admit they can read the verse incorrectly but I do find it curious that the infallible mouthpiece of God can change his mind on the matter.
